# What did Johnny Rotten mean by "Kill Rock & Roll"?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [January 11, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592 "2019-01-11T14:27:58Z")
**Posts on this page:** 17
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/1 "2019-01-11T14:27:58Z")
I get WHY he (and his cohorts) wasn’t crazy about the direction Rock & Roll was heading. But what did he mean by “kill”? Was he hoping to give rise to a musical genre that would lead to its abandonment? Or was he just hoping to lead it down such a ridiculous path as to render it useless as a meaningful medium of self expression? Somfin else entirely? Because Punk (such as it actually was a thing) essentially gave the genre new life.
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### Author:  [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2019, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/2 "2019-01-11T14:50:39Z")
Depends on whether you’re a joiner or a splitter, really.
First off, know that Rotten probably didn’t mean anything by it other than getting some attention. The Pistols were never really about any sort of revolution in the music business. They didn’t really have the ability to do that.
But when haven’t young aggressive men said they’re going to tear down and replace what came before? It’s a part of the culture, especially in a youth-obsessed subculture like pop music.
In terms of what happened? There’s a significant argument that punk didn’t get adapted to rock. But there’s also an argument that it did. It all depends on how one defines rock - a debate I’ve no real interest in having because there’s no answer - in terms of its adaptability or whether the term is just an overarching phrase to mean ‘all pop music’.
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### Author:  [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/3 "2019-01-11T16:01:28Z")
“I am outrageous. Buy my records.”
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### Author:  [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2019, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/4 "2019-01-11T16:42:28Z")
Serous question: when did he say that? Nothing jumps off google.
It just doesn’t sound like something he would say. He was a smart kid, actually rather good with words, and this just sounds _clumsy._
j
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### Author:  [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2019, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/5 "2019-01-11T16:53:50Z")
Well, Johnny pretty much said it all here:
_I am an anti-Christ
I am an anarchist
Don’t know what I want
But I know how to get it
I want to destroy [the passerby]…_
ps: ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?
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### Author:  [@Maserschmidt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maserschmidt)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2019, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/6 "2019-01-11T17:12:11Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#):
>
> First off, know that Rotten probably didn’t mean anything by it other than getting some attention. The Pistols were never really about any sort of revolution in the music business. They didn’t really have the ability to do that.
This is such nonsense. The Pistols gave rise to a massive DIY sensibility and possibility that had become invisible to people who otherwise might not have thought to make music, in an era when music had become turgidly overproduced. It was a lie that they couldn’t play their instruments - Steve Jones and Glen Matlock were terrific musicians - but they put together simple, angry songs that made a lot of people say, “oi - I can do that!” And then made fun of themselves while doing it.
Their wiki page has a ton of reference material on cultural impact if you want to skim it.
ETA: And that turgid, over-engineered rock ‘n’ roll is what John Lydon said he wanted to kill, to answer the original question.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/7 "2019-01-11T17:21:17Z")
[Here’s a video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P9Zx1fJwPw) of him discussing why he dislikes rock and roll.
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### Author:  [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2019, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/8 "2019-01-11T19:00:20Z")
Yeah, he was a snotty little iconoclast (and there’s nothing wrong with that, obviously). Maybe I’m just being to literal here - Inigo put “Kill Rock & Roll” in quotes so I was taking it for a quote. My error if that was not what was intended - as I said, it doesn’t sound like Lydon. (On the other hand, it does sound like Malcolm McLaren - but I see nothing on google for that either.)
j
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2019, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/9 "2019-01-11T19:12:55Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#):
>
> The Pistols were never really about any sort of revolution in the music business.
They were about selling Malcolm McLaren’s clothes. 😉
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### Author:  [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2019, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/10 "2019-01-11T19:21:54Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#):
>
> - Steve Jones and Glen Matlock were terrific musicians - .
They fired Matlock in favor of Sid Vicious. Sid was notoriously inept as a musician.
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### Author:  [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2019, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/11 "2019-01-11T19:23:06Z")
> [@Maserschmidt](#):
>
> …The Pistols gave rise to a massive DIY sensibility and possibility that had become invisible to people who otherwise might not have thought to make music…
Slight quibble here. I’m not saying they had no influence, but there were much more important influences at the time in re “DIY sensibility”. To name a couple: John Peel, the DJ who championed new music basically from the 1960s up to his far too early death. See: [List of Peel Sessions - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Peel_sessions). Many bands’ first experience of recording was a Peel session, particularly in the late 70s.
Secondly, Scritti Politti, who famously printed, on a record cover, details of how they had made the record, enabling others who may have lacked the nous, or just thought it far too difficult, to follow suit. (Not sure how secure the links I have found are, but you can google image search \ to get an idea.)
So: I would say contributed yes; gave rise to, no.
j
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### Author:  [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)
#### Post date: [January 11, 2019, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/12 "2019-01-11T19:37:53Z")
> [@Treppenwitz](#):
>
> Yeah, he was a snotty little iconoclast (and there’s nothing wrong with that, obviously). Maybe I’m just being to literal here - Inigo put “Kill Rock & Roll” in quotes so I was taking it for a quote. My error if that was not what was intended - as I said, it doesn’t sound like Lydon. (On the other hand, it does sound like Malcolm McLaren - but I see nothing on google for that either.)
>
> j
My bad, I believe the verb he’d used was “destroy”. (Better Google hits with that)
> [@Maserschmidt](#):
>
> ETA: And that turgid, over-engineered rock ‘n’ roll is what John Lydon said he wanted to kill, to answer the original question.
This makes sense.
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### Author:  [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)
#### Post date: [January 12, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/13 "2019-01-12T18:13:24Z")
“The king is gone, but he’s not forgotten
This is the story of a Johnny Rotten”
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [January 12, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/14 "2019-01-12T20:38:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> They were about selling Malcolm McLaren’s clothes. 😉
This. Absolutely this. The Sex Pistols were manufactured anarchy–think The Monkees with a sneer.
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### Author:  [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)
#### Post date: [January 12, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/15 "2019-01-12T21:59:23Z")
Johnny Rotten was trolling the culture and had seen _Richard III_ way too many times.
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### Author:  [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)
#### Post date: [January 12, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/16 "2019-01-12T22:19:03Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#):
>
> They were about selling Malcolm McLaren’s clothes. 😉
Nah. That was a myth put about by McLaren, that he was the genius Svengali who single-handedly engineered a musical scam with a bunch of talentless herberts. For a start the Pistols were Steve Jones’ band, and he talked McLaren into funding and managing them, and they had a talented starting line-up: a terrific guitarist, a writing, melodic bass player, a solid drummer, and an innovative, hugely influential singer. I mean, they weren’t ELO in terms of technical acumen, but that was always the point.
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### Author:  [@campp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/campp)
#### Post date: [January 12, 2019, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-johnny-rotten-mean-by-kill-rock-roll/827592/17 "2019-01-12T23:37:07Z")
I saw Steve Jones one night in a club. It was pretty f’n good. I mean, I guess he had to make a living.