# What did McCains remarks mean re DADT-elites-sacrifice... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2010, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693 "2010-12-19T07:03:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Cheshire\_Human](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/41 "2010-12-20T16:13:03Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Anyway, about Gold Star families. I believe it originated in WWI. A family would put a silver star in their front window for every member who was in the service. A one of them died in combat, they changed the star to gold. It was basically a subtle form of bragging. I doubt if anyone actually puts the stars up anymore, but I could be wrong. I saw quite a few during Desert Storm, back in '90 - '91. I don’t recall seeing any at all during the current wars. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/42 "2010-12-20T16:16:01Z")
This is probably better suited for GD than GQ. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/43 "2010-12-20T16:46:57Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Reminds one of Wiiliam Jennings Bryan. Once the best voice against robber barons and warmongers now pandering to Bible literalists. And of the character he inspired in _Inherit the Wind_ who “moved away by standing still”. I don’t think he’s even pandering because he’s not up for election again until 2016 by which time he’ll be 80 and anything that happened in 2010 will be as distant as Teapot Dome in the public memory. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/44 "2010-12-20T18:25:35Z")
In plain text, McCain’s statement is incoherent. It has no connecting thesis at all. So I’d assume that if you boil it down and extract the essense from it, it amounts to “Gays are bad.” Which, frankly, is about what you’d expect from him. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/45 "2010-12-20T18:56:23Z")
The argument some of the opponents, including McCain were making was, “If it ain’t borke, don’t fix it.” Of course there is a big gaping logical porblem with that argument, the fact that it is fucking broke, well trained, valuable, skilled, patriotic servicemen and women being froced to hide their true live, or being forced out if they do, is fucking broken. McCain is an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/46 "2010-12-20T19:01:17Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > McCain’s vision of the liberal vision of [The New U.S. Armed Forces](http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_hQ_4U6k6lVk/SvLs3hLo9bI/AAAAAAAAFSM/2DMiR1d4C3k/s400/kurt+glee+single+ladies.png). I thought that was going to be a link to [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0dWo31hwpI). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/47 "2010-12-20T19:31:04Z")
> [@Gangster\_Octopus](#): > > The argument some of the opponents, including McCain were making was, “If it ain’t borke, don’t fix it.” It’s borked. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/48 "2010-12-20T19:40:22Z")
Just for fun I’m going to try to defend McCain a little. He is old, has been losing touch for at least a few years now and his whole view of life was formed by his experiences in the military; a military that was far different from what it is today. Since then waving a flag and spouting off have won him great fame and reward. Plus, he is sort of obligated by his constituents to resist all change of any kind. So he does what all good politicians do and rambles on about vague topics that are sort of related without ever making any statement about the point at hand. Note how he talks about how liberals will high-five, how they have never serve America, how real Americans will react when the change is repealed and he knows this because real Americans (military men) tell him so. But he never says a word against gay people, because they vote too. Politicians are all slippery weasels. When they get old and start losing oil it ain’t pretty. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/49 "2010-12-20T19:42:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s borked. At least it’s better than the Icelandic army, which is björked ever since they adapted that swan uniform. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/50 "2010-12-20T19:42:41Z")
It would be one thing if he was just old and curmudgeonly and resistant to change. The problem is that the pre-senile John McCain said he would be willing to repeal DADT when the services were ready. Well, three of four service chiefs are now in favor of repeal, and suddenly he forgot that he was for it. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/51 "2010-12-20T19:43:39Z")
[QUOTE=shiftless] But he never says a word against gay people, because they vote too. [/QUOTE] I doubt many vote for McCain. (I’m sure some do, but very few I’d think.) I wonder if his daughter Meghan plans to enter politics when she’s a few years older. Her mindset is a lot less “and we by gum liked it that way!” and her stupider comments can still be written off to being young and sheltered. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/52 "2010-12-20T21:43:33Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > At least it’s better than the Icelandic army, which is björked ever since they adapted that swan uniform. Hey, that’s camouflage, man! ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/53 "2010-12-21T01:37:36Z")
> [@SeldomSeen](#): > > I went through Navy basic training in the early '80s. The company commander (naval equivalent of a DI) was required to lecture the unit on how to deal with navy women. He went into a 15-minute rant about the evils of women in “his” navy, then summed up by saying…“but you gotta be verrry careful how you treat 'em because they WILL screw you”. He did not mean “have sex with you”, he meant that if you gave a woman any reason however slight to file a harrassment charge, you’d be in big trouble. His attitude was that of a lot of “old heads”, but fortunately did not prevail. Went through in '87. The screwing was quite literal by then. Fun times and still think about at least one of those gals. Damn my young, dumb ass for not locking that one up… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/54 "2010-12-21T04:18:42Z")
Another thread that may be of interest: [What is up with John McCain? - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=587778) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/55 "2010-12-21T07:11:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It would be one thing if he was just old and curmudgeonly and resistant to change. The problem is that the pre-senile John McCain said he would be willing to repeal DADT when the services were ready. Well, three of four service chiefs are now in favor of repeal, and suddenly he forgot that he was for it. You mean he was in favour of it before he was against it? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/56 "2010-12-21T07:31:16Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > It isn’t fun to watch a fallen hero. > > He will go down in history as the last gasp in support of discrimination against gays in the military. What an unfortunate legacy. If people remember him at all, this would be a better legacy than being remembered as the man who put Sarah Palin on the national political stage. Though if he’s remembered for **that** , it will probably be because she actually gets elected president and leads us into a catastrophe of some kind. So… better that people don’t remember him at all, except from one or two sentence comments in some history books. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/57 "2010-12-21T15:26:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It would be one thing if he was just old and curmudgeonly and resistant to change. The problem is that the pre-senile John McCain said he would be willing to repeal DADT when the services were ready. Well, three of four service chiefs are now in favor of repeal, and suddenly he forgot that he was for it. Ah, but again, by analogy to what his political compatriots say about the citizenry in general, the Chiefs are not the “Real” services, they are the services’ political elites. Well, as some of them are wont to remind you under other circumstances, in there it’s not a democracy. A “real” military professional will remember his/her oath is to the Constitution and to obey the lawful orders of the CinC and his duly appointed officers. Not the parts s/he agrees with, the orders s/he would have given him/herself, not the CinC s/he voted for – the Constitution and the CinC as they are. Constitution says, Congress makes the laws about raising and organizing the military, the Prez is the CinC and through the officers gives the orders to run it. Whoever would rather resign than abide this, wasn’t getting it. What a sad twilight. Can Bob Dole go give the Senator some pointers on stepping away like a mensch? ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/58 "2010-12-21T17:12:42Z")
Even Dole jumped on the Swift Boating bandwagon in '04 against his fellow vet John Kerry, but I understand your point. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/59 "2010-12-22T01:21:21Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Can Bob Dole go give the Senator some pointers on stepping away like a mensch? You want McCain to be a spokesman for erectile dysfunction medications? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693/60 "2010-12-22T01:47:20Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Ah, but again, by analogy to what his political compatriots say about the citizenry in general, the Chiefs are not the “Real” services, they are the services’ political elites. You’re dead-on. McCain is telling us that he knows better, that the lower ranks are the ones that object. Oh, well. It’s a shame the military isn’t a top-down kind of organization, where the people below have to follow their superiors orders! What? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-mccains-remarks-mean-re-dadt-elites-sacrifice/564693.md?page=4)