# What Did Napoleon Think Of Beethoven? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 15, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-napoleon-think-of-beethoven/712734 "2015-02-15T18:01:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GreenElf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@GreenElf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenElf)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2015, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-napoleon-think-of-beethoven/712734/1 "2015-02-15T18:01:57Z")
Although Beethoven had originally planned to dedicate his Eroica symphony to Napoleon, it was published in 1806 with only the subtitle “per festeggiare il sovvenire di un grand Uomo” (“to celebrate the memory of a great man”) due to his anger upon hearing that Napoleon had become Emperor of France. I’m sure that Napoleon would have eventually caught wind of this as Beethoven was a well-known composer by that time. Is there any record of his views of Beethoven or his third symphony? I would guess that he would simply ascribe Beethoven’s animosity to being part of the other team without any attendant personal acrimony, but am just curious about any record of mention by Napoleon about this. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2015, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-napoleon-think-of-beethoven/712734/2 "2015-02-15T18:24:07Z")
I’ll point out that Ulysses S. Grant once said something to the effect that there were only two songs he knew. One version says, “One is ‘Yankee Doodle’ (or ‘Hail to the Chief’) and the other isn’t.” The other says, “One is ‘The Star Spangled Banner’’” - “And the other?” - “That’s the one where I don’t stand up and take my hat off.” Maybe Nappie didn’t have enough appreciation of music to care. Good question, though. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2015, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-napoleon-think-of-beethoven/712734/3 "2015-02-15T18:36:04Z")
Not much. AFAICF no direct remarks from Napoleon came about that issue. Most likely because Napoleon was more into Italian opera and martial tunes. And as the Napoleon side reports, Beethoven could still had a soft spot for the conqueror after changing the name to the symphony. > **[INS Scholarship 1998: The Eroica Riddle: Did Napoleon Remain Beethoven's "Hero?"](https://www.napoleon-series.org/ins/scholarship98/c_eroica.html)** > > napoleon > [@](#): > > On the surface, the scene described by Ries would seem to be the final word on Beethoven and Napoleon. However, as we will discuss, Beethoven’s apparent disgust only seems irrevocable when seen out of context of his other known remarks regarding the French ruler following and even before the Ries incident. The truth turns out to be much more complicated than Ries implies. > As we will examine, it was for practical and financial reasons that the composer could no longer publicly acknowledge Napoleon as the inspiration for the symphony. Thus, as published in October 1806, the symphony bore the name Eroica, with the subtitle, “per festeggiare il sovvenire di un grand Uomo” - “to celebrate the memory of a great man.” Even so, as observed by Claude V. Palisca, “Beethoven never denied the existence of a live hero under the nameless cloak.” And nor did Beethoven attempt to modify the elements in Eroica’s Funeral March that resemble the great funeral compositions of the French Republic, works with which the composer was evidently familiar. Palisca believes the allusions to the music of the Revolution, Directory, and Consulate “must have been introduced in part to flatter Napoleon” and presumably to make the long, difficult symphony “more palatable” to the First Consul. We might add this must have presented quite a challenge. In terms of his musical tastes, Napoleon is reported to have preferred Italian opera and martial tunes. [4] ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-napoleon-think-of-beethoven/712734/4 "2015-02-15T18:57:40Z")
He preferred improvisational jazz. ---
**Author:** ![Flywheel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Flywheel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flywheel)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2015, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-napoleon-think-of-beethoven/712734/5 "2015-02-15T19:32:06Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > He preferred improvisational jazz. Especially Wayne Shorter. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2015, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-napoleon-think-of-beethoven/712734/6 "2015-02-15T20:03:55Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > I’ll point out that Ulysses S. Grant once said something to the effect that there were only two songs he knew. One version says, “One is ‘Yankee Doodle’ (or ‘Hail to the Chief’) and the other isn’t.” The other says, “One is ‘The Star Spangled Banner’'” - “And the other?” - “That’s the one where I don’t stand up and take my hat off.” I don’t think Grant is relevant. He notoriously disliked music for some reason, which is not a trait Napoleon is known to have shared as far as I know. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2015, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-napoleon-think-of-beethoven/712734/7 "2015-02-15T20:57:29Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > I don’t think Grant is relevant. He notoriously disliked music for some reason, which is not a trait Napoleon is known to have shared as far as I know. But that’s exactly the point. Maybe his tastes simply didn’t run to the German Romantic composers, and therefore he had no real opinion even though he was nominally being honored (and then diss-honored). ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2015, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-napoleon-think-of-beethoven/712734/8 "2015-02-15T22:41:57Z")
The likelihood is that Napoleon was completely unaware. The earliest record of the anecdote about Beethoven changing the dedication dates only from 1838. Which doesn’t necessarily mean that it never happened. But it does mean that it had not been widely known before then.