# What did people think clouds were before the scientific explanation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 22, 2025, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675 "2025-05-22T17:19:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/21 "2025-05-22T19:46:57Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > There’s evidence that humans have gotten more stupid. Lots of it. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/22 "2025-05-22T19:50:51Z")
I posit that, on average, people have been equally ignorant. Look at all the weird shit people used to believe (and many still do.) it’s just a standard, boring generational complaint, which goes back to the beginning of humankind itself, I’d suspect. At least as far back as Aristotle. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/23 "2025-05-22T19:53:37Z")
I would agree, but I think stupidity ebbs and flows with the years and we are currently in an upward cycle, let’s hope it ends sooner or we may not be here for long. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/24 "2025-05-22T19:55:49Z")
Yeah, I suppose I could allow for there being a rhythm to it, but I think it’s much subtler than people like to believe it is. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/25 "2025-05-22T20:04:12Z")
When the great mass of people have no power to influence societal-level events, it doesn’t greatly matter how stupid, or ignorant, they are. When the great mass of people do have influence, it matters greatly how stupid or ignorant they are. It matters even more who or what is setting the agenda for what they believe and how they act. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/26 "2025-05-22T20:07:57Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > While it does contain water vapor, that’s not what they’re actually _seeing_. What they’re seeing is a mist. I think steam is an even better word than mist. > [@Frodo](#): > > they talked about Air and Water as different elements. That may be the origin of the belief in transmutation: turn one element into another. Ideally, turn lead into gold. > [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Then how came the meme about angels sitting on clouds and playing their harps up 😉? You can’t sit on fog. It is not widely known that clouds contain invisible needles. The angels just dance on the tips of the needles. Many angels, lots of them. Not many people know that! 😉 > [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Not smarter, but more knowledgeable. We surely know many more things that ain’t so than our ancestors. Sad! Concerning clouds themselves and what we knew and did not know about them, it seems to me interesting to note that clouds were not systematically categorized until 1802, when **[Luke Howard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Howard)** proposed a system to name and distinguish them. Before that all clouds were just clouds, instead of cirro-strato-cumulo-nimbus. **[Jean-Baptiste Lamark](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Baptiste_Lamarck)** (the one with the acquired traits heredity) did something similar around the same time (also 1802, some ideas seem to be ripe at certain moments in time), but his system did not catch on. He chose the names for the clouds unwisely, while Howard, in good scientific tradition, went for Latin names. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/27 "2025-05-22T21:00:51Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > I think steam is an even better word than mist. Among people who work with such things professionally, the English word “steam” is generally taken to mean “hot water vapor”, i.e., completely gaseous and invisible. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/28 "2025-05-22T21:08:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Among people who work with such things professionally, the English word “steam” is generally taken to mean “hot water vapor”, i.e., completely gaseous and invisible. Professionals, you mean, like steam engine drivers and steam boat captains? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/29 "2025-05-22T21:11:37Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > “hot water vapor” I condensed it. Cool, heh? 😉 But of course you’re right ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/30 "2025-05-22T21:18:45Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Professionals, you mean, like steam engine drivers and steam boat captains? 😉 Yes, among others. Why the winkie? ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/31 "2025-05-22T21:21:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Why the winkie? Because what we see coming out of the funnels and colloquially call steam sure is visible. Yeah, I confess, it was a bad try at humor. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/32 "2025-05-22T21:29:08Z")
In Norse mythology clouds are pieces of Ymir’s brain. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/33 "2025-05-22T21:30:12Z")
It’s interesting how Chinese word for air 空氣 _kōngqì_ (Ancient Chinese _khōng khïi_) is a compound of the characters for ‘empty’ and ‘steam’, coined to form terminology for an abstract concept. It was borrowed by other languages attuned to Chinese philosophy: Japanese 空氣 _kūki_ , Korean 공기 _konggi_, Vietnamese _không khì_. Air is basically steam minus the steam, i.e. air is the medium in which steam can exist. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/34 "2025-05-22T21:32:41Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I just had another thought: did ancient people at least do predictions from watching the clouds? I mean, I’ve never understood reading the future from birds’ flight, burned bones or tea leaves, that’s all just so random, but with a bit of imagination you can see all kinds of things in certain cloud formations. After a bit of searching, it’s a subset of [Aeromancy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeromancy). > Aeromancy uses [cloud formations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_formation), [wind](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind) currents, and cosmological events such as [comets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet), to attempt to divine the past, present, or future.[[2]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeromancy#cite_note-book-2) There are sub-types of this practice which are as follows: austromancy (wind divination), ceraunoscopy (observing [thunder](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunder) and [lightning](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightning)), chaomancy (aerial vision), meteormancy ([meteors](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor), AKA shooting stars), and nephomancy (cloud divination). So, divination specifically by clouds is called nephomancy. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/35 "2025-05-22T21:40:36Z")
Unless your eyesight is very bad, a person can **see** what a cloud/mist/steam/fog is, little beads of water foating around. I can see it. I know that it is water. It collects on things a makes them wet. People did not need a scientific explanation for little droplets of water floating around. People were not stupid. They still had a lot to learn about the weather, but we cannot really predict it now more than a few days out, even with satellites. Moisture coming in, may rain later. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/36 "2025-05-22T21:46:48Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > > [@Chronos](#): > > > > Why the winkie? > > Because what we see coming out of the funnels and colloquially call steam sure is visible. Yeah, I’m sure that the most common impression of what steam looks like is a dense white mist. Which actually is not entirely unreasonable since that’s been the everyday experience for hundreds of years in everything from boiling tea kettles to steam locomotives. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2025, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/37 "2025-05-22T23:23:00Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > When I was little, I used to stare upwards at the “cotton balls” in the sky Queue The Orb, “[Little Fluffy Clouds](https://youtu.be/8Ecdn5SGT1E?si=GNCtX_93nOGYhAvw)” - classic early 90s electronica/ambient trance. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/38 "2025-05-23T06:42:32Z")
Clouds can really look solid at times…quite often on flights I have the desire to hop out and have a wander round on what looks like a fluffy plain. And I don’t think imagining spiritual beings as light enough to live on clouds (and just…disappearing whenever there’s clear skies) is that crazy compared to other religious belief. When the bible talks about people going up to the clouds or speaking down from the clouds, I think they were being pretty literal, whether or not they had some idea of the water cycle. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/39 "2025-05-23T10:37:04Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > Better yet, anyone who lives on certain mountains sees clouds from above, below, and within, on a regular basis. enipla waves. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2025, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675/40 "2025-05-23T11:31:30Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Clouds can really look solid at times…quite often on flights I have the desire to hop out and have a wander round on what looks like a fluffy plain. Oh, yes, the view of clouds when you are amongst them can be truly spectacular! Several years ago, I was on a return flight home from DFW just when the sun was beginning to set. The sky was nimbus clouds that were spaced far enough apart so that plenty of sky could be seen between them. The entire view turned a brilliant red. I was glued to the window, mesmerized by the spectacular cathedral that was on fire! I’ve never seen anything as fabulous before or after that sunset! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-people-think-clouds-were-before-the-scientific-explanation/1018675.md?page=3)