# What did Ruby have to hide? Or, why did he do it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 11, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347 "2005-05-11T04:36:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/1 "2005-05-11T04:36:10Z")
I’m not entirely which section of the SD to put this in so I opted on the safe side and posted in Great Debates. I ran a quick search and I didn’t see another topic quite like this. Basically, why did Ruby kill Lee Harvey Oswald? If I may flesh out the question a little, I believe Oswald was acting alone. I do not believe there was a conspiracy and that it was Oswald and just Oswald who carried out the killing. I think the various agencies (FBI, CIA etc.) caused more problems in trying to cover up their own errors and mistakes after the killing. This seems to have contributed to the confusion and fostered the conspiracy theories. That said, I guess I just can’t understand why Ruby did it and I’d like to hear other thoughts etc. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/2 "2005-05-11T05:54:36Z")
It’s possible Ruby did it for the same reason that many assassins commit their crimes - a desire to become famous by killing someone famous. In this particular case, he may have even believed he would be a hero for avenging Kennedy’s murder. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/3 "2005-05-11T06:57:41Z")
Reasons Ruby offered included his desire to spare Jackie Kennedy the painful ordeal of a trial, and a wish to prove that “Jews have guts.” (Ruby himself was Jewish; his given surname was Rubinstein.) There’s also ample reason to question his sanity, so while you can find possible reasons, a satisfying one might be hard to come by. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/4 "2005-05-11T08:24:09Z")
The excellent [mcadams](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/sorrow.htm) website’s conclusion: an angry man’s desire for revenge and concern for the President’s wife, however misguided. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/5 "2005-05-11T12:39:12Z")
Ruby’s murder of Oswald is the one part of the story that makes me willing to take the conspiracy theories seriously. For the alleged assassin of Kennedy (still proclaiming his innocence) to be immediately assassinated himself by a third party **with known Mafia ties** – it’s just too much to be a plausible coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/6 "2005-05-11T13:06:33Z")
Those “Mafia ties” were [pretty insubstantial](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ruby.htm), **BG** - most small time crooks like Ruby would perhaps _know someone_ involved with one Family or another. As for Oswald [protesting](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/defense.txt) his innocence (proteting his _politics_ might be a more accurate description of the nonsensical gibberish he spouted in custody), well, after killing one officer and trying to kill another upon [arrest](http://www.jfk-online.com/mcdonald.html) he did say “I guess it’s all over now”. How wrong he was. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/7 "2005-05-11T13:41:46Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > Those “Mafia ties” were [pretty insubstantial](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/ruby.htm), **BG** - most small time crooks like Ruby would perhaps _know someone_ involved with one Family or another. The linked cite is from the Warren Commission report. The Wikipedia, FWIW, mentions the following things that cite leaves out – [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack\_Ruby#Organized\_Crime\_Links:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ruby#Organized_Crime_Links:) > [@](#): > > [Jack Ruby] also had links to organized crime while working for Al Capone’s Mafia organization. He served in the United States Army during World War II without seeing combat. After being discharged he moved to Dallas in 1947 where he and his brothers shortened their names to Ruby. They had opened up a mail order business and feared that some Americans would not do business with Jews. He later went on managing nightclubs, strip clubs, and dance halls, and also working as manager for entertainers and prostitutes for various Mob leaders. Ruby went to Cuba in 1959 on one of his gun-running ventures and to visit a mafia friend, Lewis McWillie, whom Fidel Castro had put in prison. McWillie was also connected to leading mafia Godfathers Meyer Lansky and Santo Trafficante, Jr. > > \ > > Ruby asked, verbally and in writing, several times over the 6 months following the Kennedy assassination to speak to the Warren Commission. Only after Ruby’s sister wrote letters to the Warren Commission (and after her writing the letters to the commission became publicly reported) did the commission agree to talk to Ruby. In mid-1964 Earl Warren, Gerald R. Ford and others finally came to Dallas. While there, they met with Ruby. Ruby begged Warren several times to take him to Washington D.C. because he feared for his life, and that of his family members. Warren refused. (Yes, I know there’s a running controversy on this board about how reliable the Wikipedia is . . . but compared to the Warren Commission . . . 😉 ) > [@SentientMeat](#): > > As for Oswald [protesting](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/defense.txt) his innocence (proteting his _politics_ might be a more accurate description of the nonsensical gibberish he spouted in custody), well, after killing one officer and trying to kill another upon [arrest](http://www.jfk-online.com/mcdonald.html) he did say “I guess it’s all over now”. > > How wrong he was. Hey, I don’t dispute that Oswald pulled the trigger. Or, at least, **a** trigger. But his famous protestation, “They’re trying to make a patsy out of me,” suggests something beyond a lone-gunman theory. I.e., we shouldn’t just assume that by “they,” he meant the Dallas police. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/8 "2005-05-11T13:43:44Z")
Will this tinfoil hattery never die? I mean, seriously, will we forever be confronted with speculation about how a Cuban/Centaurian arms treaty was foiled when the USAF shot down the Centaurian consulate’s Saucer over Area 51, and the Cubans, in a Machiavellian plot for revenge, sent Oswald to take out the President, and then Ruby to tie up the loose ends? It’s getting _old_, citizens; really, _depressingly_ old. Let it go. Ruby was an angry, vengeful, somewhat deranged man. That’s it. Oswald was a loony. There’s nothing more to say on the subject. For Og’s sake, let this die, already. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/9 "2005-05-11T14:00:55Z")
Well, **BG** , even that Wikipage only suggests that 30 years _after_ Al Capone, Jack Ruby might have had mobsters in his _strip clubs_ (no! really?). And Oswald’s quote was “I’m just a patsy” - the word “they” didn’t appear, even disregarding the fact that this came from a trained sharpshooting, communist defecting, cop-killing liar. What is _wrong_ with the Warren Report, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/10 "2005-05-11T14:29:13Z")
FWIW, from a girl who was in primary school a few years after the assassination, we were also told about the “wanting to avenge/spare Jackie’s feelings” theory (nothing about the Jewish thing, of course; being Jewish in NYC was so normal that nobody would think to mention it). And LHO did it alone, and because they told him to. “They” being Booth, Giuteau, Czolgosz, Fromme, and all the rest as shown in the musical documentary ASSASSINS. 😃 Booth: “Fifty years from now, people will still be arguing about the Cubans, the Mafia, the grassy knoll…!” ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/11 "2005-05-11T15:23:28Z")
Regarding Ruby’s contacts with the Mob: he (Ruby) was a part of the capone gang in Chicago, in the 1930’s. However, as a jew, he could never have been a “made’ member of the Mafia. (Although Meyer lansky had no trouble moving up in the Mob!) Anyway, Ruby probably paid tribute to the new orleans mafia crime boss 9santos Trafficante). in fact, Ruby placed a lot of phone calls to new orleans, just before the hit on oswald. Is there some connectioon? Nobody knows, since oswald and Ruby are dead. The thing I find intrigueing: 'momo” giancana (Mafia boss in Chicago) was trafficant’s boss in the mafia hierarchy. Momo probably wanted ANYBODY connected with the kennedy hit to be “out of the way”. getting a low-level mafia operative (like jack ruby) to do it makes perfect sense. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/12 "2005-05-11T15:36:23Z")
> [@ralph](#): > > getting a low-level mafia operative (like jack ruby) to do it makes perfect sense. Why go to that trouble and then let _Ruby_ live for decades in prison, where he could have blabbed at any point and might even have been _expected_ to confess on his death bed? And the phone call connections are, surprise surprise, [extremely tortured](http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid.htm). ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/13 "2005-05-11T16:29:47Z")
You have to realize that once in , you can NEVER really get out of the Mob. What kept Ruby from spilling his guts? I’m quite sure that his sister was contacted by the mob, and it was made very clear to Jack, that her continued well-being was dependent upon him keeping his mouth shut! In many such situations, the mob will support a hit man who goes to jail-and the threat is always there. odf course, Momo Giancan could easily have had jack Ruby killed in prison…that is probably just a matter of getting an operative into the prison, and arrnanging for the guards to be away for a few minutes. There is some loyalty in the Mob, and jack probably had Santo’s promise that he would not be harmed, and his sister would have some financial support. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/14 "2005-05-11T16:38:27Z")
Cuba…the Mob…CIA…Luis Posada Carriles…Roswell…it’s all connected! ---
**Author:** ![Lochdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/edb3f5/32.png) [@Lochdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lochdale)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/15 "2005-05-11T16:52:04Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > You have to realize that once in , you can NEVER really get out of the Mob. What kept Ruby from spilling his guts? I’m quite sure that his sister was contacted by the mob, and it was made very clear to Jack, that her continued well-being was dependent upon him keeping his mouth shut! In many such situations, the mob will support a hit man who goes to jail-and the threat is always there. odf course, Momo Giancan could easily have had jack Ruby killed in prison…that is probably just a matter of getting an operative into the prison, and arrnanging for the guards to be away for a few minutes. There is some loyalty in the Mob, and jack probably had Santo’s promise that he would not be harmed, and his sister would have some financial support. Thank you all for your comments. My only problem with the Giancana link is that Sam Giancana really wasn’t the brains behind the Chicago mob. That role was reserved for Tony Accardo. Given what I have read about Giancana he doesn’t appear to be smart enough or subtle enough to pull something like this off. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/16 "2005-05-11T17:10:33Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Regarding Ruby’s contacts with the Mob: he (Ruby) was a part of the capone gang in Chicago, in the 1930’s. However, as a jew, he could never have been a "made’ member of the Mafia. (Although Meyer lansky had no trouble moving up in the Mob!) Don’t have it handy, but I read in an encyclopedia of American organized crime that when Lucky Luciano formed the national crime syndicate in the 1930s, he considered abolishing the old Sicilian Mafia, but decided instead to preserve it as one of several branches; so Lansky wasn’t actually “in” the Mafia but he was definitely a power in the syndicate. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/17 "2005-05-11T17:23:56Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > You have to realize that once in , you can NEVER really get out of the Mob. What evidence is there that Ruby’s involvement with the Mafia extended beyond that of any sleazy night club operator in 1963? He may have paid a little protection to make sure there were no mysterious fires, or to keep the police from raiding the place. That doesn’t make him a key player bound by the Omerta. What evidence is there that Ruby had ever been an “enforcer” or hit man for Capone or anyone else? If there is no evidence, why would the Mafia send an inexperienced fringe player to perform a hit that would receive worldwide attention? Was the Mafia in 1963 so disorganized that the best they could come up with was a bit player who would be recognized by half the cops at Dalls Police headquarters? What links existed between Oswald and the Mafia, so that the Mafia would want Oswald silenced in the first place? Look at it this way. In the past 150 years, nearly ALL assasinations and attempts (notable exceptions, Lincoln, Hitler and DeGaulle) have been the works of angry crackpots acting on their own. What makes anyone think any conspiracy organizers would trust someone like Ruby and/or Oswald? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/18 "2005-05-11T17:39:24Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Regarding Ruby’s contacts with the Mob: he (Ruby) was a part of the capone gang in Chicago, in the 1930’s. Cite? That would have been quite a feat, given that Capone went to jail in 1931, when Ruby was only 20 years old, and further given that Ruby spent the years from 1933 to 1937 in California, a hell of a long way from Chicago mob. Everything else in your posts is just baseless speculation, so I won’t bother with it. For those who remain grounded in the world of facts and data, Jack Ruby appears to have been quite the street thug in his younger days, and had a violently explosive temper throughout his life, but there is no persuasive evidence that he was connected with organized crime in any meaningful way, particularly by 1963. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/19 "2005-05-11T20:30:35Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > For Og’s sake, let this die, already. What fun would that be? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2005, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347/20 "2005-05-11T20:32:56Z")
> [@kunilou](#): > > If there is no evidence, why would the Mafia send an inexperienced fringe player to perform a hit that would receive worldwide attention? Was the Mafia in 1963 so disorganized that the best they could come up with was a bit player who would be recognized by half the cops at Dalls Police headquarters? If Somebody was afraid of what Oswald might say under questioning, he had to be eliminated immediately, and the only way to do that was in public. For that job, they would have needed somebody **expendable.** [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-ruby-have-to-hide-or-why-did-he-do-it/303347.md?page=2)