# What did Scrooge, Marley and Cratchit Actually \*DO\* for a Living? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 9, 2000, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756 "2000-12-09T13:45:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2000, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/1 "2000-12-09T13:45:49Z")
This has always bothered me. Every version of this movie I’ve seen shows Scrooge & Cratchit doing painstaking, tedious work involving counting money and writing down figures. But it’s never revealed what it is, exactly, that they’re doing _or_ how Scrooge earnes money from it. I always figured they were counting and recounting Scrooge’s money to stroke his ego. So what’s going on? Is Scrooge’s company an accounting firm? Were there accounting firms in Victorian England? Does the Dickens novel reveal what Scrooge’s business is? * * * MODERATOR NOTE: Thread from 2000, re-opened 10/2013, closed as too zombie to live. – CKDH ---
**Author:** ![Nika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ba9def/32.png) [@Nika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nika)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2000, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/2 "2000-12-09T14:16:05Z")
I always thought he was a money lender and Cratchit was his accountant/secretary or something. But I might be making this up from childhood dillusions. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2000, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/3 "2000-12-09T15:26:38Z")
They were, like, accountants or something, weren’t they? Anyone got a copy of Dickens’ **A Christmas Carol** handy? ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2000, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/4 "2000-12-09T15:32:25Z")
They are simply “men of business”. Dickens doesn’t elaborate because (a) it isn’t important to the story, to say exactly what they did, and (b) there were lots of “men of business” at the time. A little real estate, a little import/export, a China tea clipper or two, it all adds up. There are references to a warehouse and a counting-house, which I think simply meant the office and vault. It couldn’t have been a very big business (or a bank) because there is only one clerk. I don’t think they were moneylenders as such, because I believe moneylending in Dickensian London was the province of the Jews, and Scrooge wasn’t Jewish. [http://www.stormfax.com/dickens1.htm](http://www.stormfax.com/dickens1.htm) > [@](#): > > Scrooge never painted out Old Marley’s name. There it stood, years afterwards, above the warehouse door: Scrooge and Marley… > > Once upon a time – of all the good days in the year, on Christmas Eve – old Scrooge sat busy in his counting-house… > > The door of Scrooge’s counting-house was open that he might keep his eye upon his clerk, who in a dismal little cell beyond, a sort of tank, was copying letters… ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2000, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/5 "2000-12-09T15:34:19Z")
Accountants wouldn’t have had a warehouse. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2000, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/6 "2000-12-09T15:44:18Z")
In the George C. Scott version, Scrooge is approached by a couple of men at the Exchange. They offer to buy Scrooge’s corn for Scrooge’s price; but since they waited a day, Scrooge jacks up the price and threatens to raise it again if they don’t meet it. The buyers tell Scrooge that if Scrooge insists on shuch a high price, then he (Scrooge) will be left with a warehouse full of corn. “That is my concern,” says Scrooge. “A little real estate, a little import/export, a China tea clipper or two, it all adds up.” My guess is that Scrooge is a wholesaler. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2000, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/7 "2000-12-09T15:58:08Z")
The dictionary definition of “counting house” > [@](#): > > A building, room, or office in which a business firm carries on operations such as accounting and correspondence. Cratchit was Scrooge’s clerk, so he basically did accounting for whatever Scrooge’s business was. Without delving further, I suspect that Scrooge was some sort of wholesale jobber, since he had a warehouse. Business in Victorian London involved a lot of middlemen, and an awful lot of clerks since all the accounting for all these transactions had to be done longhand with a quill pen. BTW, I’ve heard it claimed that Bob Cratchit’s salary as stated in the story (15 bob a week) was actually pretty good money for a clerk at that time. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2000, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/8 "2000-12-09T16:45:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yabob \* > \*\*Cratchit was Scrooge’s clerk, so he basically did accounting for whatever Scrooge’s business was. \*\* I was just reading this to my son last night. The first time we see Cratchit, he’s copying out letters. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2000, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/9 "2000-12-09T16:54:01Z")
In the TNT Patrick Stewart version (on again last night), a poor-looking couple look relieved to hear of Scrooge’s death during the Xmas Future segment. The husband explains that they will have a respite from loan repayments until the estate executor catches up, and they’ll have the money by then. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2000, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/10 "2000-12-10T03:27:35Z")
The movie called “SCROOGE” made in 1961 I believe, shows that Scrooge was clerk like Marley was. He turned mean after his sister died giving birth.(how some version show Scrooge’s sister as his younger sister is impossible as it is clearly stated Scrooge’s father hated him as his mother died giving birth to him) Then he quits the nice guy he was working for and joins a company and his co worker is Bob Marley. Later we see basically there was some embezzlement with a company. This must have been a major company because it was implied the embezzlement would cause wide spread panic if known. Marley and Scrooge offer to pay off what the embezzler took ONLY if they can buy stock in the company to a total of 51%. In short to save the company they become the company. Then when Marley gets sick and dies Scrooge moves into his house and owns it all. Thus he seems to be the major stockholder or CEO in a major London Company. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2000, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/11 "2000-12-10T03:37:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Markxxx \* > **Then he quits the nice guy he was working for and joins a company and his co worker is Bob Marley.** Bah, Humbug, mon! De poorhouse an’ de debtors’ prisons, dey still be open, mon? Terribly sorry…there are some things that I am absolutely incapable of resisting… ---
**Author:** ![AWB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bb73d2/32.png) [@AWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AWB)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2000, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/12 "2000-12-10T03:50:53Z")
I thought he was a TV network executive. His secretary gets shot at by Borg, until she’s beamed up to Capt Ahab’s ship. His newest crewman find a little alien, who likes Reese’s Pieces. [sub]I guess I really shouldn’t fall asleep during movie marathons.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![SSgtBaloo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac91a4/32.png) [@SSgtBaloo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SSgtBaloo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2000, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/13 "2000-12-10T05:48:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Markxxx \* > \*\*The movie called “SCROOGE” made in 1961 I believe, shows that Scrooge was clerk like Marley was. He turned mean after his sister died giving birth.(how some version show Scrooge’s sister as his younger sister is impossible as it is clearly stated Scrooge’s father hated him as his mother died giving birth to him) > > Then he quits the nice guy he was working for and joins a company and his co worker is Bob Marley. > > Later we see basically there was some embezzlement with a company. This must have been a major company because it was implied the embezzlement would cause wide spread panic if known. Marley and Scrooge offer to pay off what the embezzler took ONLY if they can buy stock in the company to a total of 51%. In short to save the company they become the company. > > Then when Marley gets sick and dies Scrooge moves into his house and owns it all. > > Thus he seems to be the major stockholder or CEO in a major London Company. \*\* That would be the 19_5_1 version starring Alastair Sim. I believe the book does not give details, but, as has been stated before, businessmen in the 19th century often had their hands in various interests. Wholesaler is as good a description as any. ~~Baloo ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2000, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/14 "2000-12-10T08:00:27Z")
Scrooge A misanthropic moneylender, whose name (one of Dickens’s most ingenious inventions) has become an eponym for `miser.’ -----------------------and a personal view: Some reviewers like to comment that “Scrooge became Marley” in the 7 years since Marley’s death. The description of Bob Cratchit and his duties sounds more like a secretary. Remember, secretaries wouldn’t become mostly female until later. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2000, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/15 "2000-12-11T18:23:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Doug Bowe \* > \*\*Scrooge > A misanthropic moneylender, whose name (one of Dickens’s most ingenious inventions) has become an eponym for `miser.’ > -----------------------and a personal view: > > Some reviewers like to comment that “Scrooge became Marley” in the 7 years since Marley’s death. > > The description of Bob Cratchit and his duties sounds more like a secretary. Remember, secretaries wouldn’t become mostly female until later. \*\* Maybe the warehouse was for goods left as collateral? Scrooge didn’t strike me as the type who would trust debtors with unsecured loans. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2000, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/16 "2000-12-11T19:58:11Z")
I was always under the impression that Scrooge and Marley traded in commodities (or futures or some such derivative item). I’m not sure how Dickens treats it (I’ve read this many times, but it’s not at my fingertips. You might have a look at “The Annotated Christmas Carol” for more details. My copy is at home, right now, but I’ll check it tonight. ---
**Author:** ![mealypotaotes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/54ee81/32.png) [@mealypotaotes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mealypotaotes)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2000, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/17 "2000-12-11T19:58:48Z")
I subscribe to the ‘man of business’ answer. A little usary, commodities trading, real estate. These were the staples of a man born to wealth, as Scrooge was (we know this from his sister Fran, who comes to collect him from school in a Christmas past - their wealthy father has shipped him off to school). His apprenticeship at Fezziwig’s wouldn’t have come cheap either. David Copperfield’s was a thousand pounds, while Pip’s (Great Expectations) was seven hundred, I believe. Considering Dickens was paid around 50 pounds per installment of these books, 700-1000 was a fortune. In another Dickens novel we have Daniel Quilp (The Old Curiosity Shop), who is actually nastier than Scrooge and he doesn’t repent either, so you can guess what kind of an end he comes to. Quilp is a moneylender who claims property in lieu of payment. Accordingly, he also has a warehouse by the river. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2000, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/18 "2000-12-11T20:34:18Z")
In one TV version (George C. Scott’s, I believe), Scrooge and Marley (his fellow apprentice) take control of Fezziwig’s in a hostile leveraged buyout of some sort, force the old man out, and rename the company after themselves. That’s the incident which makes Scrooge’s fiancee dump him in disgust. In the Mickey Mouse version, the sign over the door in the Xmas Past segment clearly says “Fezziwig Tea Company”. On that basis, we can firmly and unquestionably say that Scrooge was a tea importer/wholesaler/broker. So there. ---
**Author:** ![caircair](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/91b2a8/32.png) [@caircair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caircair)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2000, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/19 "2000-12-11T22:28:36Z")
I also suspected Scrooge was a “Man of Business”, perhaps a banker or moneylender – in these days, perhaps a broker? As for Bob Cratchit, since he was a “clerk” his job was mostly copying documents. Since this was the pre-Xerox days, every copy of a document had to be written out by hand, tedious and toilsome work. And while the 15 Bob might have been a good wage for the times, it probably didn’t go very far when divided among Bob and his numerous children. Side note: I know of Belinda, Tommy (I think), and another girl and another boy, plus Tiny Tim. But just how many kids did Bob Cratchit have in all? ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2000, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756/20 "2000-12-12T14:01:12Z")
**caircair** : > [@](#): > > As for Bob Cratchit, since he was a “clerk” his job was mostly copying documents. Since this was the pre-Xerox days, every copy of a document had to be written out by hand, tedious and toilsome work. So you’re saying Gutenberg’s technology had been lost to Victorian England? That doesn’t seem likely. By “copying documents” I always figured Dickens meant double-entry bookkeeping, reconciling various ledgers and accounts. In the mid-1850s this would have been painstaking, important, **and** tedious. As for Scrooge/Cratchit et al.'s business, the **Muppet Christmas Carol** suggested that F **o** zziwig’s business was manufacturing rubber chickens. That’s good enough for me. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-scrooge-marley-and-cratchit-actually-do-for-a-living/44756.md?page=2)