What did the anti-war left want us to to in regards with Japan prior to World War 2?

Can you provide a quote so we can have a sample argument? I haven’t really seen that here on the Dope.

The article discusses the Racial Equality Proposal, and googling that, it seems to come up fairly often in a number of texts. As you say, the simplistic argument is:

  1. Adopt the proposal
  2. Then somehow the world suddenly stops being racist
  3. Japan wouldn’t be such nasty people because they were just reacting to the world

It does look like this argument pops up frequently, but never with any depth in details.

Incidentally, here is an article which squarely blames the US for WWII. This isn’t written by a liberal, but rather a propaganda publication by ultranationalists in Japan. The Australian author has other wonderful articles denying the Nanking Massacre and applauding the Japanese for ending Western colonialism in WWII.

Nothing I’ve seen is convincing or offers a meaningful argument. If there is one, I’d love to read it.

Your summary is very well written and covers many important issues, hitting many part of the history in depth.

I agree with many of your points, but don’t agree with this conclusion. While the danger to Japan of colonialization by Western powers was indeed a recognized threat in the mid nineteenth century, and which set in motion the events that lead to the Meiji Restoration, by later part of the century or the early part of the twentieth century, there really wasn’t any real danger to Japan itself. Rather Japan felt that it was being denied its rightful place as an imperial power with a sphere of interest in Asia.

As noted, Japan was forcible opened to foreign trade in the mid 1800s and undertook a remarkable transformation from a backward, feudal society to a modern nation in about 60 years. It was during this time that the Scramble for Africa occurred.

Japan was hyper focused on the external world during this time, and saw that the European powers had already grabbed much of the world and was busy taking whatever was left. In Asia, most of the countries other than China were subject to Western powers.

As they became more developed and powerful, they believed they had a right to loot other countries, just like the white powers were doing. From early on, they had their designs on Korea and northern China.

As noted, Japan had entered WWI on the side of the Allies and had as such conquered German territories in Asian. However, more importantly, the German concession in the Shandong Province were also overrun by the Japanese, who took control of it.

In 1915, Japan attempted to exert control over China through the Twenty One Demands.

One of the key goals of Japan at the Paris Peace Conference was for the Western powers to acknowledge the Japan control over Shandong Province. The other was that racial equality proposal, but it wasn’t a proposal for countries to stop colonialism and they certainly had no plans on abandoning their territories. Rather, they wanted Japan to be treated as an equal and be allowed to have its sphere of influence in Asia as a colonial power.

I just don’t see this as realistic in any way. Look at a map of the world in 1919, see all of the colonies in the world, including the Philippines, a colony of the US, and ask if Japan would be willing to forgo its vision as an equal first world power for a piece of paper? Looking at it from their point of view, why should they give up China when none of the other powers were not surrendering theirs?

They would not have given up their concessions in China and certainly would not have abandoned future plans for Manchuria.

We have to look at Japan’s internal politics, including the various ultra nationalistic factions in the Imperial Japanese Army and the role they played in the march to militarism

This is already TLDR, but the seeds of the Kōdōha or Imperial Way Faction (皇道派) and the Tōseiha - Wikipedia Tōseiha or Control Faction (統制派) for example were already planted.

These factions came out of the historical divisions within the army, which were the result of civil war rapid modernization of the Meiji Restoration. (Probably no one is this interested, but one of the two founding fathers of the modern Japanese army, Prince Yamagata, made sure that the senior leadership of the IJA remained in the southern Choshu clique, and blocked officers from other areas from reaching the highest echelon. Included among those was the father of Tojo Hideki, the PM and Army Minister who brought Japan into the war. Tojo’s father came from one of the rebel northern domains which fought against the Choshu-Satsuma alliance in the 1860s.

The radicalization within the army has roots in the domestic issues and not exclusively as reactions to the external world. There isn’t any reason to assume that adopting meaningless(?) cause in a treaty on the other side of the world would have prevented the ultra nationalism movements.

It’s a mistake to ignore the affects of domestic divisions within Japan. The push to eliminate the bakufu shogunate government had less to do with their handling of modernization and much more to do with the dissatisfaction with the status quo in feudal Japan.

After the Tokugawa clan was able to suppress rival clans, their opponents were permanently relegated to a lessor status. However, over the hundreds of years several of the domains had become stronger and were dissatisfied with their status. Among them were Satsuma (Kagoshima) and Chōshū (Yamaguchi).

Without getting too far into Japanese history (if we haven’t already), the internal frictions were the cause of eventual elimination of the bakufu and the start of the Meiji Restoration, rather than simply reactions to external pressures. Satsuma and Choshu were key players in the ensuing civil way, and were on the winning side. Choshu was instrumental in the modernization of the army and kept others from leadership, as explained above.

Another flaw with this alternative history scenario is that it neglects the other perceived humiliations of the Japanese on the world stage, such as the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty and 1930 London Naval Treaty which limited the strength of the Japanese navy compared to the British and US navies.

The road to militarism is far more complex and simple changes would not have made much difference.

Yes, AFAIK from studying history, there was no other opposition to war in the Pacific other than the quickly becoming outdated idea that the United States should be neutral and isolationist on the world stage. We are separated from the rest of the world by two oceans and for the first 150 years it was the majority opinion that what those people in Europe or Asia did was their business and we weren’t getting involved. After Pearl Harbor showed that the oceans weren’t that big, that idea has forever been shelved. But it wasn’t a left-wing/right-wing/peacenik/pacificist/racial thing at all as far as anything I have read.

Years ago I knew a fellow who had been a left wing activist in the 1930s, and continued as a leftist until he died. In the 1930s he was organizing Vancouver longshoremen to refuse to load cargo on Japanese ships, especially goods that could be used for war, including scrap metal that, as he put it, “would be coming right back at us as bombs and artillery shells.” They also organized to try to have the Canadian government put pressure on the Japanese government to stop its imperial expansion. And when Japanese-Canadians were put in internment camps after Pearl Harbor, he organized to have them released. In between, he tried to get to Spain to fight fascists and fascism in the Spanish Civil War but couldn’t get there. So there was lots going on if one cared to look at the time

This has been a most informative thread, and I regret this slight derail (well, side excursion) - why would these guys, anti-fascists all, object at this point?

Dan

Will pipe down if this is judged too much of a distraction, but it’s important to distinguish between those anti-fascists who were independent of the Communist Parties of their home countries and those who were and remained Party members. Not all members of the A-L Battalion [sic] were CPers. The point is, the CP’s line changed according to circumstance, and the line was about the safety of the USSR. Once Britain, France, etc. had refused to take up “collective security” with the USSR against Germany, the line was “oppose any war,” which Stalin thought would be turned into a general war against the USSR. Thus he sought a pact with Germany to buy time. With that pact and the change in the line, opposing war, lend-lease, etc. was the logical shift. That of course changed when Hitler invaded the USSR.

Thank you.

Dan