# What did the Commodore Vic 20 (or contemporaries) do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 5, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326 "2011-04-05T22:49:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/61 "2011-04-06T19:02:58Z")
Pardon a stupid question, but were there chat rooms and emails in the early 1980s? And if so could the Vic 20 participate? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/62 "2011-04-06T19:09:13Z")
> [@johnpost](#): > > the 1702 was a sweet monitor that Commodore made. > > if you had money you went with the 64, that monitor, a 1541 FD or two. schools could go for that. > > if you had less money then you went for a Vic 20, 1530 dataset and your tv. I had a 1702, which was much, much better than using a TV. A 1541 also. The C64 was not a bad computer for the time, and I was lucky in getting an early one without the sparkle bug. Compute! Gazette sold floppies of user programs quite cheaply, so you didn’t have to type stuff in. Not bad, and since they were all in BASIC you could hack them if you wished to. You certainly did not have to be an expert to use one - the primary source after the first ramp up was ToysRUs, but you could program in Microsoft Basic fairly easily, and an assembler was available. Most people just bought games, though. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/63 "2011-04-06T19:21:45Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Pardon a stupid question, but were there chat rooms and emails in the early 1980s? And if so could the Vic 20 participate? With a modem and a text terminal, there were all sorts of services that the VIC-20 could participate in, including email. Now granted there was no internet (as it is today, that is), but there were newsgroups and mail forwarding services between BBS’s. Things started to get graphical with Quantum Link (which became AOL). ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/64 "2011-04-06T19:41:12Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Pardon a stupid question, but were there chat rooms and emails in the early 1980s? And if so could the Vic 20 participate? often there would be local bulletin board systems, often platform centered, to exchange email. in later years there were national services that might appear similar to this forum. either you made a long distance call or called a local access number which billed at some wholesale phone rate, sometimes you needed both if not in a big city. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/65 "2011-04-06T20:01:28Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > With a modem and a text terminal, there were all sorts of services that the VIC-20 could participate in, including email. Now granted there was no internet (as it is today, that is), but there were newsgroups and mail forwarding services between BBS’s. Things started to get graphical with Quantum Link (which became AOL). In the very early 1980s there was certainly an internet, but it didn’t use domain addressing yet, and was mostly used by people from universities and research institutions like Bell Labs. I got a tape of a netnews distribution in 1984 from Illinois, and I put it up on our 3B20 but never connected it to the outside world. Not for the average consumer, though. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/66 "2011-04-06T20:19:57Z")
The VIC had a fairly robust expansion port so it was popular with the hardware hobbiests and hackers. I know that the tornado warning siren system was controlled by a VIC-20 for about a decade around here. ---
**Author:** ![RaftPeople](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@RaftPeople](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RaftPeople)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/67 "2011-04-06T20:36:10Z")
Ok, I know this is my third post on this and you are probably getting tired of it, but I can’t tell you how excited I am, I didn’t realize any of this was on the internet and I never would have even looked if it wasn’t for this thread. I don’t even have copies of any of it anymore. Anyway, here’s a youtube of one of my games: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/A7AyPGWlvMc/hqdefault.jpg "Module Man - Dragon 32 - Gameplay vid") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7AyPGWlvMc) ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/68 "2011-04-06T20:46:23Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I was watching a [Commodore Vic 20 commercial](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUEI7mm8M7Q) and was curious: what could you do with one? As you can see from the commercial, the VIC-20 had a matter teleportation feature. No one has mentioned it yet for some reason. And it worked in color too. Much better than the monochrome teleporter of the old Commodore PET. ---
**Author:** ![Strangelove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5fc32e/32.png) [@Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/69 "2011-04-06T21:04:15Z")
> [@minor7flat5](#): > > " > > Then I learned that inside the 8K cartridge case was a set of dip switches that allowed you to choose the memory block where the 8K started. I cut a small hole in the case to access these switches. > > At that point, I finally found out what use that cartridge was: there was a little machine language app that a friend gave me that would rip the ROM program code from a game cartridge and serialize it to a cassette tape. You could then plug in the 8K expander, set to the correct memory location, and use the same little program to load the cartridge code into the 8K RAM. > > A couple of hard switches added to the case, wired to pins on the mother board, finished the package: one for hard reset, the other for soft reset. Wow, flashback! My dad was the only one I’ve ever heard of doing this to the C64. I always wondered where he got the idea. I still think all keyboards should have a little red button on them to reset the computer. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/70 "2011-04-06T22:26:15Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Pardon a stupid question, but were there chat rooms and emails in the early 1980s? And if so could the Vic 20 participate? But of course! That’s how I met my hubby, on a local BBS. The SysOp (system operator) had altered the BBS program to help with formatting on my 22-column screen, but pretty soon I got a 40-column terminal program for the VIC. Eventually I even wrote an 80-column terminal program in assembly (it was surprisingly legible, given that those 80 columns of text were squeezed into a screen that was 160 pixels wide). ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/71 "2011-04-06T22:29:18Z")
> [@Bytegeist](#): > > As you can see from the commercial, the VIC-20 had a matter teleportation feature. No one has mentioned it yet for some reason. I wondered in that commercial if the reason the teleporter effect wasn’t better was to avoid a lawsuit. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/72 "2011-04-06T22:53:38Z")
> [@Heracles](#): > > But of course! That’s how I met my hubby, on a local BBS. > > The SysOp (system operator) had altered the BBS program to help with formatting on my 22-column screen, but pretty soon I got a 40-column terminal program for the VIC. > > Eventually I even wrote an 80-column terminal program in assembly (it was surprisingly legible, given that those 80 columns of text were squeezed into a screen that was 160 pixels wide). Whoa. How in the heck did you manage 80 columns on a 160 pixel wide screen? I’m impressed. ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/73 "2011-04-06T23:14:57Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Whoa. How in the heck did you manage 80 columns on a 160 pixel wide screen? I’m impressed. You had to squint a little. 🙂 Every character was 2 pixels wide and 7 tall, and they were all bunched up together (no space/kerning between the characters, except if there was an actual space of course). Most words were recognizable, but numbers mostly weren’t. I had about half the screen scrolling the text slowly in 80 columns, and the other half showing it in normal size (but scrolling at 4 times the speed) in case I really needed to read the details. I was using a 1200-bit-per-second modem, which gave me time to switch my eyes between the two parts if need be. ---
**Author:** ![Bytegeist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@Bytegeist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bytegeist)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/74 "2011-04-06T23:18:30Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Whoa. How in the heck did you manage 80 columns on a 160 pixel wide screen? Hmmmm. He used Braille? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/75 "2011-04-06T23:47:48Z")
> [@Heracles](#): > > You had to squint a little. 🙂 > > Every character was 2 pixels wide and 7 tall, and they were all bunched up together (no space/kerning between the characters, except if there was an actual space of course). Most words were recognizable, but numbers mostly weren’t. > > I had about half the screen scrolling the text slowly in 80 columns, and the other half showing it in normal size (but scrolling at 4 times the speed) in case I really needed to read the details. I was using a 1200-bit-per-second modem, which gave me time to switch my eyes between the two parts if need be. Have you ever checked out the Commodore VIC 20 demo scene? If you go to Youtube and search for “VIC-20 demo” you’ll find some interesting stuff. I’m always impressed with what people can do within those tight limitations. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/76 "2011-04-06T23:54:48Z")
I have a C64 in front of me now. Unfortunately, something happened a few years ago and either all my floppy drives or all my floppy disks stopped working. I can still play cartridge games. I do not have a Vic 20 or a C128. I do have the Plus4 (C64 with preloaded business software), Koala pads, mouse, modems and a bunch of other stuff. My Commodore monitor is currently hooked up to an NES and a GameCube. ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/77 "2011-04-07T00:02:31Z")
There was a popular BBS in Ann Arbor called “M-Net” that ran a BBS product called “Picospan” that was written by a local college kid at the U of M. The problem was that Mike (the sysop) only had ten lines and ten modems. That meant that you had to keep redialing over and over until someone hung up, in order to log in. The discussions there were surprisingly similar to the kinds of things one reads on the Dope, complete with all kinds of inside jokes and trolls and so on. I had a RS232 adapter for my C-64, so I wrote a small program that would send the “ATDT…” strings to the modem every thirty seconds, and I would hang out somewhere else watching TV until I heard the distinctive whistle of the modem picking up. Then, with a spring in my step, I would go over to the computer, yank the cable off the back, and quickly plug it into the VT-100—which was a much better terminal than the C-64 was. And what joy it was when my dad brought home a Hayes 1200 baud modem to replace the aging 300 baud acoustic coupler modem. > [@Heracles](#): > > You had to squint a little. 🙂 > > Every character was 2 pixels wide and 7 tall, and they were all bunched up together (no space/kerning between the characters, except if there was an actual space of course). Most words were recognizable, but numbers mostly weren’t. > > I had about half the screen scrolling the text slowly in 80 columns, and the other half showing it in normal size (but scrolling at 4 times the speed) in case I really needed to read the details. I was using a 1200-bit-per-second modem, which gave me time to switch my eyes between the two parts if need be. Sounds painful! I remember an app I had on my C64 that gave 80 characters across on a 40-character screen by using letters that were three pixels wide, and one sliver for a gap between. It wasn’t that bad, but since I happened to have an honest-to-goodness physical VT-100 terminal that my dad brought home from work, the C64 super-skinny mode wasn’t needed. But 2 pixels per letter? I can imagine an A (a lower-case two-story “a”), and “f” and “p”, but how in blazes did you do “m”? ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/78 "2011-04-07T00:04:43Z")
could you really save word procssing files on cassette tape? that seems so weird to me (you can tell I’m young) but if you listen to old tapes the sound is worse. How is the data secure? How does that effect word files? ---
**Author:** ![minor7flat5](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/minor7flat5/32/258_2.png) [@minor7flat5](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minor7flat5)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/79 "2011-04-07T00:09:23Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > could you really save word procssing files on cassette tape? that seems so weird to me (you can tell I’m young) > > but if you listen to old tapes the sound is worse. How is the data secure? How does that effect word files? Yes, you could save stuff to tape. It was very slow, and the sound on the tape was pretty similar to what you used to hear with a 300baud modem on the phone line (though many have never even heard that). I’m not talking about the “wooosshh” sound of 1200, more the “beep bip beep bip bip” sound. A friend of mine gave me a little machine language app that sped up tape writes and reads by a substantial amount, but I was afraid to use it because I figured it was cutting corners somewhere and the tapes would probably degrade faster. You got used to writing down tape counter numbers for where a particular file was. Then you would reset the (mechanical) counter after rewinding the tape, fast forward to a little before the number you wrote down, and then load the file. ---
**Author:** ![Kyrie\_Eleison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kyrie_eleison/32/7682_2.png) [@Kyrie\_Eleison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyrie_Eleison)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326/80 "2011-04-07T00:31:32Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > Say CoCo for the Tandy if you need a cutsie name. For Christmas, my father gave me a Tandy Color Computer with 4K RAM when I was in middle school. By the time I was done with it, I had upgraded it to 64K, which required modifying the motherboard. That was my first experience with a soldering iron. I subscribed to a magazine named “Hot Coco.” When the first issue arrived, my mother intercepted it unopened and confronted me, thinking it was porn. My high school graduation present was a daisy wheel printer with an RS-232 interface. I composed many of my early college papers for English and history classes on that thing, and saved them on the 5.25" external floppy drive I had bought for it. In addition to BASIC programming, I learned Motorola 6809 assembly and machine language on that beast, and gained an understanding of the basics of computer architecture. But then Intel architectures began to dominate, and my poor CoCo became obsolete. Today, I have that machine’s CPU on my key chain, and I’m employed as an engineer in a computer related field. It’s safe to say that I wouldn’t be where I am today if my father hadn’t given me that machine. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-commodore-vic-20-or-contemporaries-do/577326.md?page=5)