# What did the US gain from the Phillipines? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 30, 2015, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022 "2015-11-30T11:44:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/1 "2015-11-30T11:44:25Z")
The US took over the Phillipines after the Spanish American war in 1898. What did the US gain from owning the Phillipines other than having a forward military base? Surely it must have cost alot to put troops there and build military bases. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/2 "2015-11-30T13:14:52Z")
Manila was going to be our Hong Kong After the US Civil War, American industry’s output had reached the same level as the Western European nations. But domestic production outstripped domestic consumption. Industry paid low wages for the largely unskilled labor, performed by waves of immigrants each willing to work for less than the preceding, and who weren’t paid enough to buy what they made. This race to the bottom was part of what caused the Panic of 1893. The answer was to find foreign markets: somewhere that 1. the local industry could not compete, 2. the local government was too weak to impose protective tariffs, 3. There were millions and millions of potential customers. That summed up China in the 1890’s ---
**Author:** ![dolphinboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dolphinboy/32/330_2.png) [@dolphinboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dolphinboy)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/3 "2015-11-30T13:50:54Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Manila was going to be our Hong Kong > > After the US Civil War, American industry’s output had reached the same level as the Western European nations. But domestic production outstripped domestic consumption. Industry paid low wages for the largely unskilled labor, performed by waves of immigrants each willing to work for less than the preceding, and who weren’t paid enough to buy what they made. This race to the bottom was part of what caused the Panic of 1893. The answer was to find foreign markets: somewhere that 1. the local industry could not compete, 2. the local government was too weak to impose protective tariffs, 3. There were millions and millions of potential customers. That summed up China in the 1890’s That and the US wanted a forward military base in the Eastern Pacific. Yes, it costs a lot of money to build and maintain foreign bases around the world, but how else can you provide a quick strike capability to protect our national interests overseas? ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/4 "2015-11-30T17:35:01Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Manila was going to be our Hong Kong So what went wrong? Why didn’t Manila become a vital trade centre between the US and China? And why not use Hawaii for that purpose? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/5 "2015-11-30T18:32:34Z")
The short answer is that Hong Kong was purpose built to siphon off the wealth of China. Manila was already a big city focused on the Philippine archipelago. The US steamed into read-made naval bases in Subic and Cavite, with our heads swelled up with Alfred Thayer Mahan’s naval-centric philosophy of world domination. But Asia at this time was changing in ways that it hadn’t been when the British put their hands on it almost a century earlier. The US acquired it’s Asia concession station just as the great days of economically raping China were ending: The Boxer Rebellion, although a big loss for the Chinese, proved to the victors that China needed stabilization if it was going to anything besides a hornets nest. The Chinese Republican revolutionaries knew that we knew this, so they cunningly worked themselves in with the best group positioned to help them: not US congressmen, or US merchants, but US Christian missionaries. As a result, the US pumped more money into China than it ever pulled out. Eventually, it was expected, China would have its act together as a modern nation somewhat in the American mold, and we’d be shipping in Model Ts and Singer sewing machines by the boatload. And it may have well worked out that way, but Japan wanted in on the good old-fashioned China-raping, and really queered the deal. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/6 "2015-11-30T18:57:20Z")
The scramble of overseas empires that took place in the nineteenth century is kind of bizarre. There were attempts made to justify building these empires but they really made no sense. Personally, I feel it was just one of the manias that sweeps through society sometimes. And like most manias, it was self-reinforcing: countries saw other countries seizing colonies and worried if they didn’t join in quickly, they might not have a chance later. So governments sent expeditions out to plant flags wherever possible without any master plan. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/7 "2015-11-30T19:09:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The scramble of overseas empires that took place in the nineteenth century is kind of bizarre. There were attempts made to justify building these empires but they really made no sense. Spain, Great Britain and the Netherlands all made huge amounts of money from their empires in the 18th century. It was quite natural for the late comers to think they could do the same. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/8 "2015-11-30T19:24:52Z")
Our\* main reason\* was to not let a European power control it. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/9 "2015-11-30T19:38:43Z")
If we did not annex it, then Germany or Japan certainly would have. And that would mean obstacles to the opening of Asian markets to American goods. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/10 "2015-11-30T20:01:11Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > If we did not annex it, then Germany or Japan certainly would have. And that would mean obstacles to the opening of Asian markets to American goods. Exactly, and thus a foreign European power blocking access to Asia. America was different in it’s “Empire Building” since from Day One there were plans to make the Philippines independent. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/11 "2015-11-30T20:08:34Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Exactly, and thus a foreign European power blocking access to Asia. > > America was different in it’s “Empire Building” … The Native Americans might disagree. America’s imperial expansion was westward on its own continent. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/12 "2015-11-30T20:10:04Z")
We had a [duty](http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5478/). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/13 "2015-11-30T20:26:16Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The Native Americans might disagree. America’s imperial expansion was westward on its own continent. That’s not generally considered Imperialism or Colony building. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/14 "2015-11-30T21:28:52Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Spain, Great Britain and the Netherlands all made huge amounts of money from their empires in the 18th century. It was quite natural for the late comers to think they could do the same. There were some places that could pay off. If you took over a small island that could produce a high value crop like spices or sugar, you had a combination of minimal overhead and high yield. But other colonies had sizable native populations and required much higher costs to govern and at the same time didn’t have the kind of concentrated wealth that could be easily extracted and sent back to the mother country. It wasn’t like the nineteenth century imperialists had discovered some new place. Europeans had been sailing around Africa for three hundred years and nobody thought the place was worth conquering. Sure, you could set up trading bases along the coast. But let the local kings run things. They’d pay the expenses for maintaining their kingdoms and you’d just trade for the wealth they produced. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/15 "2015-11-30T21:33:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s not generally considered Imperialism or Colony building. We’ve always told ourselves that we weren’t part of nineteenth century imperial scramble. But compare a map of the United States in 1800 to a map of the United States in 1900. We were just taking a different continent from a different group of natives. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2015, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/16 "2015-11-30T22:12:28Z")
The Philippines (and also lesser Pacific possessions like Guam) were to an extent a side-effect of the US main focus against the remnants of the Spanish empire in the Caribbean. Some in fact wondered about occupying the Philippines: referring to the compensation the US paid Spain, then Speaker of the House Thomas Reed remarked “We are buying 10,000,000 Malays at $2 a head unpicked, and nobody knows what it will cost to pick them”. But practically, the US had demonstrated that Spain was finished as an imperial power. If the US hadn’t occupied the Philippines, they would have swiftly become a colony of Britain, France, Germany or possibly Japan. ---
**Author:** ![botsgotme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@botsgotme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/botsgotme)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/17 "2015-12-01T16:23:21Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There were some places that could pay off. If you took over a small island that could produce a high value crop like spices or sugar, you had a combination of minimal overhead and high yield. But other colonies had sizable native populations and required much higher costs to govern and at the same time didn’t have the kind of concentrated wealth that could be easily extracted and sent back to the mother country. > > It wasn’t like the nineteenth century imperialists had discovered some new place. Europeans had been sailing around Africa for three hundred years and nobody thought the place was worth conquering. Sure, you could set up trading bases along the coast. But let the local kings run things. They’d pay the expenses for maintaining their kingdoms and you’d just trade for the wealth they produced. Very good analysis…the fact is, imperialism and colonies didn’t pay off until late in the 19th century. Powers that came late (Imperial Germany, Italy) wound up getting the worst of all worlds-out of the way colonies, with few resources and violent, ungovernable populations. Like German Southwest Africa (now namibia)-the Germans finally resorted to exterminating the local population. Or Italy-they had a worthless chunk of sand called Libya-and missed the giant pool of oil underneath. The fact is, while people like VP Teddy Roosevelt were heel-bent on imperialism, President McKinley later regretted the acquisition of the Philippines. It is much better to secure concessions from the local governments. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/18 "2015-12-01T16:34:25Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > The Philippines (and also lesser Pacific possessions like Guam) were to an extent a side-effect of the US main focus against the remnants of the Spanish empire in the Caribbean. Some in fact wondered about occupying the Philippines: referring to the compensation the US paid Spain, then Speaker of the House Thomas Reed remarked “We are buying 10,000,000 Malays at $2 a head unpicked, and nobody knows what it will cost to pick them”. > > But practically, the US had demonstrated that Spain was finished as an imperial power. If the US hadn’t occupied the Philippines, they would have swiftly become a colony of Britain, France, Germany or possibly Japan. It’s rather more complicated than that. Aguinaldo fought with the US against Spain under the understanding that he was fighting for a free Philippines. > [@](#): > > Aguinaldo wrote retrospectively in 1899 that he had met with U.S. Consuls E. Spencer Pratt and Rounceville Wildman in Singapore in 1898 between April 22 and 25 and that they persuaded him to again take up the mantle of leadership in the revolution, with Pratt communicating with Admiral George Dewey (the U.S. Navy’s Asiatic Squadron commander) by telegram, passing assurances from Dewey to Aguinaldo that the United States would at least recognize the independence of the Philippines under the protection of the United States Navy, and adding that there was no necessity for entering into a formal written agreement because the word of the Admiral and of the United States Consul were in fact equivalent to the most solemn pledge that their verbal promises and assurance would be fulfilled to the letter and were not to be classed with Spanish promises or Spanish ideas of a man’s word of honor.[36] Aguinaldo reports agreeing to return to the Philippines, traveling from Singapore to Hong Kong aboard the steamship Malacca, onwards from Hong Kong on American dispatch-boat McCulloch, and arriving in Cavite on May 19.[36] The New York Times wrote on August 6, 1899 that Pratt had obtained a court order enjoining the publication of certain statements “… which might be regarded as showing a positive connection” between himself and Aguinaldo.[37] The Times reports the court ruling to uphold Mr. Pratt’s position that he had “no dealings of a political character” with Aguinaldo and the book publisher withdrew from publication statements to the contrary.[37] > > In Camiguin, Aguinaldo reports meeting with Admiral Dewey, and recalls: “I asked whether it was true that he had sent all the telegrams to the Consul at Singapore, Mr. Pratt, which that gentleman had told me he received in regard to myself. The Admiral replied in the affirmative, adding that the United States had come to the Philippines to protect the natives and free them from the yoke of Spain. He said, moreover, that America is exceedingly well off as regards territory, revenue, and resources and therefore needs no colonies, assuring me finally that there was no occasion for me to entertain any doubts whatever about the recognition of the Independence of the Philippines by the United States.”[36] By late May, Dewey had been ordered by the U.S. Department of the Navy to distance himself from Aguinaldo lest he make untoward commitments to the Philippine forces.[38] > > A late 19th century photograph of Filipino Katipuneros. > In a matter of months after Aguinaldo’s return, Philippine revolutionary forces conquered nearly all of Spanish-held ground within the Philippines. With the exception of Manila, which was surrounded by revolutionary forces some 12,000 strong, the Filipinos now controlled the Philippines. Aguinaldo also turned over 15,000 Spanish prisoners to the Americans, offering them valuable intelligence. On June 12 Aguinaldo declared independence at his house in Cavite El Viejo. > > Spanish Governor-General Fermín Jáudenes had made a secret agreement with Dewey and General Wesley Merritt. Jaudenes specifically requested to surrender only to the Americans, not to the Filipino revolutionaries. To save face, he proposed a mock battle with the Americans preceding the Spanish surrender; the Filipinos would not be allowed to enter the city. Dewey and Merritt agreed to this, and no one else in either camp knew about the agreement. On the eve of the mock battle, General Thomas M. Anderson telegraphed Aguinaldo, “Do not let your troops enter Manila without the permission of the American commander. On this side of the Pasig River you will be under fire”.[39] On August 13, with American commanders unaware that a peace protocol had been signed between Spain and the United States on the previous day, American forces captured the city of Manila from the Spanish.[40] > Uncle Sam (representing the United States), gets entangled with rope around a tree labelled “Imperialism” while trying to subdue a bucking colt or mule labeled “Philippines” while a figure representing Spain walks off over the horizon carrying a bag labeled “$20,000,000”. > 1899 political cartoon by Winsor McCay > At the beginning of the war allies against Spain in all but name; now Spanish and Americans were in a partnership that excluded the Filipino insurgents. Fighting between American and Filipino troops almost broke out as the former moved in to dislodge the latter from strategic positions around Manila on the eve of the attack. Aguinaldo had been told bluntly by the Americans that his army could not participate and would be fired upon if it crossed into the city. The insurgents were infuriated at being denied triumphant entry into their own capital, but Aguinaldo bided his time. Relations continued to deteriorate, however, as it became clear to Filipinos that the Americans were in the islands to stay.[38] > > The June 12 declaration of Philippine independence had not been recognized by either the United States or Spain, and the Spanish government ceded the Philippines to the United States in the 1898 Treaty of Paris, which was signed on December 10, 1898, in consideration for an indemnity for Spanish expenses and assets lost. > > On January 1, 1899, Aguinaldo was declared President of the Philippines—the only president of what would be later called the First Philippine Republic.[41] He later organized a Congress at Malolos, Bulacan to draft a constitution.[42] Admiral Dewey later argued that he had promised nothing regarding the future: > > “ > “From my observation of Aguinaldo and his advisers I decided that it would be unwise to co-operate with him or his adherents in an official manner. … In short, my policy was to avoid any entangling alliance with the insurgents, while I appreciated that, pending the arrival of our troops, they might be of service.”[34] > **[Philippine–American War](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine%E2%80%93American_War)** > > American victory > 1899–1902: United States > 1899–1902:\[a\] Philippine Republic You could argue that if the US hadn’t appropriated the Phillipines, some other power would have, but the bulk of the fighting in the Philippines was not between the US and Spain, but between the US and Filipino forces. ---
**Author:** ![fire\_hazard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6de8d8/32.png) [@fire\_hazard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fire_hazard)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2015, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/19 "2015-12-01T16:44:37Z")
The 1911 pistol was adopted by the US as a result of the conflict in the Phillipines. [http://www.browning.com/library/infonews/detail.asp?id=301](http://www.browning.com/library/infonews/detail.asp?id=301) ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022/20 "2015-12-02T00:37:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That’s not generally considered Imperialism or Colony building. I hear bagpipes. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-did-the-us-gain-from-the-phillipines/739022.md?page=2)