That said, wow. How did an American right-wing Christian conservative get elected Russian president? What a coup! His persecution of gays and lesbians has American conservatives creaming themselves.
His big mistake: linking American exceptionalism with God made us equal. American conservatives would love for Americans to give up their exceptionalism, eliminate minimum wage and employment laws, and be happy with whatever sub-minimum wage Walmart deigns to offer them. Everyone created equal? No way! If you’re too stupid and lazy to be rich, you deserve what you get. The rich are better. How else could they be rich?
As for Obama being some sort of foreign policy genius, how far back do we need to go to make that fit? Did Obama also set off the gas attack in Syria? All part of his master plan for peace? I doubt it. With the numbers of foreign mercs and weapons pouring in, I don’t find it that unreasonable that rebels, maybe within the ranks of Assad’s own forces, set off the gas attacks.
The rest of the letter makes perfect sense. I’m comforted that a PR firm wrote it, and not actually Putin.
I want to know where the idea that Obama didn’t want to use military force came from. The US newspapers don’t have anything along those lines, do they?
Russia didn’t invade Chechnya, Chechnya is part of Russia. It’s no more an invasion than British activities in Northern Ireland. As for Georgia, the European Commission found that the Georgians had invaded Russia. They condemned the Russian occupation of large parts of Georgian territory as an overreaction, but when you’re invaded no-one expects you to wait for a UN resolution to act in self-defence, least of all the UN. The UN Charter is quite clear on the right to resist invasion.
Easy, he can hand over control of his chemical weapons, which he has always openly admitted to having, even though they weren’t the ones used in the attacks. That way the next attack will be clearly the work of the terrorists.
See also: this CNN article claiming Western governments have been training the rebels specifically to steal Assad’s chemical weapons, and here and here, where freed hostages say they heard the rebels admitting responsibility.
Call it the taking of human life rather than murder, if that makes you feel better. But at the end of the day, there is no discernible difference. Those people will be dead either way.
Given that Putin is funding and arming the Assad dynasty, he has a lot of gall to pose as a peacemaker.
Putin completely played Obama and Kerry for suckers- and we’re probably LUCKY he did. We had no business lobbing missiles into Syria just to “send a message.” We had no business getting involved in a Syrian Civil War, period.
So Russia out-diplomacied the US, a nuclear-level misstep was averted, and innocent lives were saved. Good. The US has funded a lot of corrupt dynasties in the past 30 years, that doesn’t mean shit.
As a nation, the biggest lesson the US has failed to learn is how to lose gracefully. Maybe this event will change that. Until now/recently, a lot of Americans haven’t understood that we’re NOT the best at everything. Now, between this event and recent UHC debates, they’ve been forced to re-evaluate their national identity. I think they’re more angry about a perceived “fall from grace” than they are about this situation. It certainly explains the rage of the older generation directed Putin’s way. Although a lot of that is just racism toward Obama, too.
Doing the right thing for the wrong reasons doesn’t matter when so many human lives were at stake.
Get real- Putin didn’t bring peace to Syria- Syria is STILL at war, and Putin is actively supporting one side in that war.
He has certainly saved a few hundred lives- specifically, the Syrians who would have been killed in the bombing Obama and Biden were planning.
But that number is already dwarfed by the Syrians already killed with weapons supplied by Putin (or bought with Putin’s money), and by the SYrians who WILL be killed by Assad with Putin’s aid.
Putin doesn’t want to end the war, he wants to WIN it.
Who cares? It’s not *our *war (yet, hopefully ever). There were many signs that very few of the American people wanted to get involved in the first place. If Putin’s interest was the only way to convince Obama to make the right decision, then power to Putin. His interests don’t have to align with ours if the right decision gets made.
And uh, by the way, look who’s talking? Because the US has been waaay guilty of this on more than one occasion. We don’t have a track record of taking the high road in the name of peace. There have been plenty of times where we sacrificed the greater good (and human lives) for the sake of motherfucking oil. We don’t have the high ground, very few nations do. Maybe Canada and Switzerland.
I am not understanding. First you say it is good that Putin is saving innocent lives, then when it is pointed out that Putin is not saving innocent lives, you say that you don’t care.
Putin prevented America from taking innocent lives in a conflict with which we aren’t involved. Whether or not he plans to take lives later because he IS involved in that conflict isn’t relevant. It is a very good thing that Putin is saving the US from taking innocent lives, even if that is mere coincidence because that wasn’t his intention. The fact that we even *listened *is also a very good thing, because we don’t have a good track record in that regard.
Whether or not it’s okay, America has insufficient credibility to be pointing out diplomatic hypocrisy. That’d be the kettle calling the Putin black… heh
I’m sorry if you weren’t aware, but did you know your name is already listed above every post you make? That’s one of the rad features of message boards these days.
I know Obama threatened to do so, but in the end he didn’t. I assume the diplomatic solution was the one he wanted all along; others may assume otherwise. If I look at how he handled Libya and Bin Laden, I think it is save to say that if Obama had really, really wanted an airstrike, he would have just gone ahead and done it.
Well, no - taking innocent lives is either good, or bad. If it is good, it is good for the US and for Russia. Likewise if it is bad. The relevant thing is the taking of innocent life, not whether it is done by the US or by Russia.
Tu quoque is a logical fallacy.
We’ve gone over this many times. I am aware of this. If you need it explained, feel free to research one of the many threads on the topic.
I thought the letter was an interesting political move, and we will see more of it – foreign leaders trying to bypass domestic leaders and addressing the domestic population directly.
I ge the impression that Putin does not understand his reputation among average Americans, or he probably wouldn’t have bothered.
Still, the fact that it happens at all I take as a relatively positive step in relations among nations, aside from whether it works or not for a particular situation.
Well, right or wrong I’m glad not to be the only one who read the situation this way.
Assad passed gas
US said, “That’s it homey, give up the gas or we’ll end you.”
Assad to US: “Piss off holmes.”
Russia to US: “Step off USA, let me see what I can do…”
Russia prevails upon Syria to give up the gas in accordance with a (rather protracted if you ask me) schedule.
Obama, half paying attention to Russia’s bluster, continues to load its magazine occasionally grunting out an “uh-huh…” snicksnick “okay, make sure that works”… swabs out the gun barrel and holds it up to the light while glancing into the breach
My read is Obama never wanted to blast Assad, but was left with no choice. Assad has some big brothers so thumbed his nose at BO. Putin did not get to be who and what he is by underestimating his adversaries–he knows BO will sigh and cry all the way to the button and hit it right on schedule. Putin checks his little brother. In the end, The US gets what it wants, Assad gets to save a little face (a BIG deal in ME culture), and Putin makes a little political hay. Obama wins: if Syria fucks up, Russia gets “Fail” and Syria gets blasted just like Obama promised; If Syria complies, Obama wins because they coughed up the gas as he originally recommended–never mind who else got involved.
Well Putin now looks like a genius (compared to John McCain). McCain’s letter to the Russians is just about the most foolish thing I’ve ever read.
The man is definitely senile.:mad:
