# What difference would it make if Atheist ruled the world? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 2, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188 "2013-10-02T15:48:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/241 "2013-10-03T13:37:52Z")
[QUOTE=Miller;16720828 I’ve never noticed a lack of morality on behalf of atheists. Or a particular surplus of it on behalf of theists.[/QUOTE] Atheists tend to stay married longer; I think that can very well translate into if Atheists ruled the world, people would stay married longer, there is evidence enough to make a strong case for that. And that is an example of what I am asking in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/242 "2013-10-03T13:48:06Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Then what difference would it make if religion rules the world? All those churches do occupy a lot of valuable real estate… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/243 "2013-10-03T13:53:29Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Then what difference would it make if religion rules the world? Religion doesn’t rule the world _now_. If you’re offering a hypothetical choice between an all-theistic world and an all-atheistic world, I’ll go with the latter just because theism is a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/244 "2013-10-03T14:08:42Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Atheists tend to stay married longer; I think that can very well translate into if Atheists ruled the world, people would stay married longer, there is evidence enough to make a strong case for that. And that is an example of what I am asking in this thread. And where might we find this evidence that atheists stay married longer? I’ve never heard this before. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/245 "2013-10-03T14:13:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Religion doesn’t rule the world _now_. If you’re offering a hypothetical choice between an all-theistic world and an all-atheistic world, I’ll go with the latter just because theism is a waste of time. So why are most of the people in the world wasting their time? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/246 "2013-10-03T14:14:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And where might we find this evidence that atheists stay married longer? I’ve never heard this before. [http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistfamiliesmarriage/a/AtheistsDivorce.htm](http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistfamiliesmarriage/a/AtheistsDivorce.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/247 "2013-10-03T14:20:31Z")
On some level, I think that we have been cheated, deeply. We’ve been promised an afterlife, so we don’t think it’s worth it to fix this world. In fact, we consider suffering as part of this world. This is what many religions teach. If we all knew, or 85-90% of us knew, that there was no afterlife, would we try to make this world better? Would we try to make this world heaven? I don’t know. But if anything that is the best I can think of if the majority of the world was atheist - that we would work harder to make this world the best there was. There’d still be wars and disagreements, blood and death, but maybe if so many people weren’t convinced a better world was waiting for them and knew that this was it, maybe they would reconsider. I think that’s the most insidious and evil thing that religion has given to us - the idea that this world doesn’t matter. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/248 "2013-10-03T14:25:53Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > [http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistfamiliesmarriage/a/AtheistsDivorce.htm](http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistfamiliesmarriage/a/AtheistsDivorce.htm) Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/249 "2013-10-03T14:26:41Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > On some level, I think that we have been cheated, deeply. We’ve been promised an afterlife, so we don’t think it’s worth it to fix this world. In fact, we consider suffering as part of this world. > > This is what many religions teach. > > If we all knew, or 85-90% of us knew, that there was no afterlife, would we try to make this world better? Would we try to make this world heaven? I don’t know. But if anything that is the best I can think of if the majority of the world was atheist - that we would work harder to make this world the best there was. > > There’d still be wars and disagreements, blood and death, but maybe if so many people weren’t convinced a better world was waiting for them and knew that this was it, maybe they would reconsider. > > I think that’s the most insidious and evil thing that religion has given to us - the idea that this world doesn’t matter. I certainly understand this, and I see the point clearly. I think that may well make a difference and more people would try to make best with what we have. Religion does indeed focus on the next life; and I don’t think that is evil within itself, its hope; but IF a religious person allows their motivation to make this world better to be negatively affected, that is a problem, but it is not evil. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/250 "2013-10-03T14:27:11Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > On some level, I think that we have been cheated, deeply. We’ve been promised an afterlife, so we don’t think it’s worth it to fix this world. In fact, we consider suffering as part of this world. > > This is what many religions teach. > > If we all knew, or 85-90% of us knew, that there was no afterlife, would we try to make this world better? Would we try to make this world heaven? I don’t know. But if anything that is the best I can think of if the majority of the world was atheist - that we would work harder to make this world the best there was. > > There’d still be wars and disagreements, blood and death, but maybe if so many people weren’t convinced a better world was waiting for them and knew that this was it, maybe they would reconsider. > > I think that’s the most insidious and evil thing that religion has given to us - the idea that this world doesn’t matter. Maybe a bit more empathy when we realize that we are going o the same place no matter who we are or what we do. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/251 "2013-10-03T14:33:35Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Maybe a bit more empathy when we realize that we are going o the same place no matter who we are or what we do. And none of us are chosen, or blessed with divine authority. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/252 "2013-10-03T14:53:16Z")
The problem with this discussion is the assumption by the OP that atheism attempts to exist as a belief system similar to religion. Religious belief centers on the acceptance as real the existence of divine agents, their involvement in the world and the idea that the morality of actions is to be judged as moral only in so far as they adhere to the obligations laid out by the religion they follow. They tend to be broad, codified systems. Atheist belief centers only on a single point – the acceptance that divine agents _do not_ exist. It’s fairly obvious that for those worldviews centered on religious belief the question then becomes what do atheist believe in? The answer is of course many things. An atheist most likely would frame their understanding of the world on empirical evidence and the ideas of logical positivism – only natural laws and forces exist. There _can be others_ frameworks used of course. The only need, if you can call it that, being that there are no divine agents required by the framework. Morality, without a divine provider, then becomes a question of determining what is right to do as opposed to what is right to obey. The categorical imperative, Mill’s consequentialism or Rawl’s veil of ignorance might all be used by atheists when they build their ethical worldview. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/253 "2013-10-03T15:03:12Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > The problem with this discussion is the assumption by the OP that atheism attempts to exist as a belief system similar to religion. > > Religious belief centers on the acceptance as real the existence of divine agents, their involvement in the world and the idea that the morality of actions is to be judged as moral only in so far as they adhere to the obligations laid out by the religion they follow. They tend to be broad, codified systems. > > Atheist belief centers only on a single point – the acceptance that divine agents _do not_ exist. > > It’s fairly obvious that for those worldviews centered on religious belief the question then becomes what do atheist believe in? The answer is of course many things. > > An atheist most likely would frame their understanding of the world on empirical evidence and the ideas of logical positivism – only natural laws and forces exist. There _can be others_ frameworks used of course. The only need, if you can call it that, being that there are no divine agents required by the framework. > > Morality, without a divine provider, then becomes a question of determining what is right to do as opposed to what is right to obey. The categorical imperative, Mill’s consequentialism or Rawl’s veil of ignorance might all be used by atheists when they build their ethical worldview. I think its a serious error for Atheists to assume that Theist are not reasonable, not logical, and not positive people , and assume that all Atheist naturally are. Atheist have not cornered the market on logic and reason. And in order to take a hypethectical look at a world of Atheists rule, we do not need to put down Theist. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/254 "2013-10-03T15:04:14Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > So why are most of the people in the world wasting their time? It turns out we have a lot of time to waste. Once your basic survival needs are met, you can come up with all kinds of ways to kill time. Personally, I’d rather have people sitting quietly in a church than, say, going on a celebratory rampage because the local sports team won a championship. The latter activity may be secular, but it’s not better. You haven’t defined what a “world run by Atheist” means, so give us some guidelines and we can discuss them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/255 "2013-10-03T15:07:25Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I think its a serious error for Atheists to assume that Theist are not reasonable, not logical, and not positive people , and assume that all Atheist naturally are. Atheist have not cornered the market on logic and reason. Who here has made these assumptions? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/256 "2013-10-03T15:11:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > It turns out we have a lot of time to waste. Once your basic survival needs are met, you can come up with all kinds of ways to kill time. Personally, I’d rather have people sitting quietly in a church than, say, going on a celebratory rampage because the local sports team won a championship. The latter activity may be secular, but it’s not better. > > You haven’t defined what a “world run by Atheist” means, so give us some guidelines and we can discuss them. No. I want no guidelines; I want free open discussion with no boundrys. I am not trying to " Guide Atheists through this", I am trying to open the Atheists mind to get them to open up to what a world ruled by them would be like. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/257 "2013-10-03T15:12:41Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I think its a serious error for Atheists to assume that Theist are not reasonable, not logical, and not positive people I don’t assume that, or at least not in general. On the specific topic of theism, a theist is irrational because theism is irrational. On other topics, including governance and economics and science, a theist might be perfectly rational. > [@](#): > > we do not need to put down Theist. I’m okay with putting down theism. We don’t need it any more. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/258 "2013-10-03T15:15:01Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > No. I want no guidelines; I want free open discussion with no boundrys. I am not trying to " Guide Atheists through this", I am trying to open the Atheists mind to get them to open up to what a world ruled by them would be like. Fine, it would be a utopia where everyone would live forever and unicorns would operate a 24-hour pizza delivery service. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/259 "2013-10-03T15:15:47Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I don’t assume that, or at least not in general. On the specific topic of theism, a theist is irrational because theism is irrational. On other topics, including governance and economics and science, a theist might be perfectly rational. > > I’m okay with putting down theism. We don’t need it any more. Okay, I’ll be the represenative of the majority of the world, which is Theist; now, explain to me, in a reasonable manner, why we don’t need to be as we are? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/260 "2013-10-03T15:17:23Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Fine, it would be a utopia where everyone would live forever and unicorns would operate a 24-hour pizza delivery service. Why are you using myths to explain a real theory of situation? Explain to me why you accuse Theist of using myths, and your doing the same thing? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188.md?page=14)