# What difference would it make if Atheist ruled the world? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 2, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188 "2013-10-02T15:48:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/261 "2013-10-03T15:17:29Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I think its a serious error for Atheists to assume that Theist are not reasonable, not logical, and not positive people , and assume that all Atheist naturally are. Atheist have not cornered the market on logic and reason. And in order to take a hypethectical look at a world of Atheists rule, we do not need to put down Theist. You should learn to read better. Religious belief centers on the existence of the supernatural and tends to have a divinely mandated system of ethics laid out as obligations. Atheist don’t believe in the supernatural. \*Everyone \*can reason and logically construct arguments from their premises, the atheist simply doesn’t use the divine as a starting point. And logical positivism doesn’t mean being logically upbeat. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/262 "2013-10-03T15:17:29Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > No. I want no guidelines; I want free open discussion with no boundrys. I am not trying to " Guide Atheists through this", I am trying to open the Atheists mind to get them to open up to what a world ruled by them would be like. And how many times do you have to be told that it would totally depend on which atheists “ruled the world”, as you very vaguely put it? The _ **only** _ thing all atheists have in common is a disbelief in god/gods/goddesses. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/263 "2013-10-03T15:19:49Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Why are you using myths to explain a real theory of situation? Explain to me why you accuse Theist of using myths, and your doing the same thing? Here’s a clue for you: If you are talking about more than one, add an “s” to the end of the word. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/264 "2013-10-03T15:22:55Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > You should learn to read better. > > Religious belief centers on the existence of the supernatural and tends to have a divinely mandated system of ethics laid out as obligations. > > Atheist don’t believe in the supernatural. > > \*Everyone \*can reason and logically construct arguments from their premises, the atheist simply doesn’t use the divine as a starting point. > > And logical positivism doesn’t mean being logically upbeat. Explain to me what this has to do with my reading? You are suggesting that Atheist can reason and use logic, and that Theist somehow cannot; I totally disagree with that. Religion is NOT an eraser of logic and reason; Galileo Galilei and Louis Pastuer had religion, logic and reason, as did Issac Newton and Blaise Pascal. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/265 "2013-10-03T15:24:38Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Okay, I’ll be the represenative of the majority of the world, which is Theist; now, explain to me, in a reasonable manner, why we don’t need to be as we are? If you value the truth, then you should only believe in things that are true. The existence of gods can’t be shown to be true. So, there’s that. Secondly, there is no **benefit** from being religious that _only_ comes from religion. Thirdly, there are **costs** to being religious that only come from being religious (or otherwise convinced of something on the basis of faith, which covers all sorts of woo): it allows one to ignore reality, and in the end, reality always wins. Faith doesn’t change the laws of physics. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/266 "2013-10-03T15:25:30Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Explain to me what this has to do with my reading? You are suggesting that Atheist can reason and use logic, and that Theist somehow cannot; I totally disagree with that. Religion is NOT an eraser of logic and reason; Galileo Galilei and Louis Pastuer had religion, logic and reason, as did Issac Newton and Blaise Pascal. You’ll note I said “Everyone can reason and logically construct arguments from their premises, the atheist simply doesn’t use the divine as a starting point.” So your objection is baseless, but your persecution complex is doing beautifully. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/267 "2013-10-03T15:25:44Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Explain to me what this has to do with my reading? You are suggesting that Atheist can reason and use logic, and that Theist somehow cannot; I totally disagree with that. Religion is NOT an eraser of logic and reason; Galileo Galilei and Louis Pastuer had religion, logic and reason, as did Issac Newton and Blaise Pascal. Did you miss the “everyone”? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/268 "2013-10-03T15:30:31Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > If you value the truth, then you should only believe in things that are true. The existence of gods can’t be shown to be true. So, there’s that. > > Secondly, there is no **benefit** from being religious that _only_ comes from religion. > > Thirdly, there are **costs** to being religious that only come from being religious (or otherwise convinced of something on the basis of faith, which covers all sorts of woo): it allows one to ignore reality, and in the end, reality always wins. Faith doesn’t change the laws of physics. Explain to me why the existence of God has not been shown to you, but it has been shown to me? What then is the difference between me and you? Why is it that I can see the evidence of God, and you cannot? This is called " Disagreement", the facts can be right there, but not everyone is going to agree on those facts. The evidence of God is factual to me in my view, but your view is totally different. I could conversely state to you that there is no evidence that God does not exist, can you prove that? What gives your view more weight than mine? And if your view ruled the world, would your world be different than mine if I did? And why? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/269 "2013-10-03T15:34:40Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Okay, I’ll be the represenative of the majority of the world, which is Theist; now, explain to me, in a reasonable manner, why we don’t need to be as we are? We don’t “need” to be anything. We’d be better off without theism, at least in the sense that it would be one less thing to waste time on. > [@Mickiel](#): > > Why are you using myths to explain a real theory of situation? Explain to me why you accuse Theist of using myths, and your doing the same thing? Hey, you said “no boundrys”. Immortality and unicorns are pretty minor compared to a lot of theist concepts. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/270 "2013-10-03T15:36:28Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Explain to me why the existence of God has not been shown to you, but it has been shown to me? What then is the difference between me and you? Why is it that I can see the evidence of God, and you cannot? This is called " Disagreement", the facts can be right there, but not everyone is going to agree on those facts. The evidence of God is factual to me in my view, but your view is totally different. I could conversely state to you that there is no evidence that God does not exist, can you prove that? What gives your view more weight than mine? > > And if your view ruled the world, would your world be different than mine if I did? And why? You still don’t get it. if everyone was atheistic and didn’t believe in supernatural beings we would still have a huge number of philosophical differences over knowledge, ethics and existence. They simply would not have a divine or supernatural premise lurking in the background. You’d be better off demanding “What would the world be like if everyone was a Solipsist?” or “What would the world be like if everyone was a Kantian?” ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/271 "2013-10-03T15:37:22Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Explain to me why the existence of God has not been shown to you, but it has been shown to me? What then is the difference between me and you? Why is it that I can see the evidence of God, and you cannot? This is called " Disagreement", the facts can be right there, but not everyone is going to agree on those facts. The evidence of God is factual to me in my view, but your view is totally different. What is the factual evidence for the existence of your or any God? > [@Mickiel](#): > > I could conversely state to you that there is no evidence that God does not exist, can you prove that? What gives your view more weight than mine? You can’t prove a negative, and the burden of proving a claim is on the claiment. See [Russell’s teapot.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot) > [@Mickiel](#): > > And if your view ruled the world, would your world be different than mine if I did? And why? I’ve no idea what your views are, beyond some sort of Christianity. If my views ruled the world, we’d have liberal democracy based on Enlightenment humanism everywhere, and tolerance for all faiths and creeds. Certainly a net gain there. ETA: In case that was unclear, again, atheism can’t govern the world, because atheist has no content. Atheists do, though, they just aren’t uniform. I’m an atheist humanist, I’ve a friend who is an atheist Communist. Our ideal worlds are both religion-free, but are otherwise quite dissimilar. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/272 "2013-10-03T15:43:32Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > What is the factual evidence for the existence of your or any God? > . I cannot give you a list, that is not allowed here, and the evidence is so great in numbers, it would take more than 100 pages to explain it; and that is not allowed here. I can’t give you the evidence without that insulting too many people here. I have already tried that here and will not try again. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/273 "2013-10-03T15:45:57Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > You still don’t get it. if everyone was atheistic and didn’t believe in supernatural beings we would still have a huge number of philosophical differences over knowledge, ethics and existence. They simply would not have a divine or supernatural premise lurking in the background. > " Now this I agree with; the majority of people on earth believe in the divine or supernatural; if that were inverted and the majority were Atheists, I am having a hard time seeing what difference it would make. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/274 "2013-10-03T15:50:35Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I cannot give you a list, that is not allowed here, and the evidence is so great in numbers, it would take more than 100 pages to explain it; and that is not allowed here. I can’t give you the evidence without that insulting too many people here. I have already tried that here and will not try again. This is not true. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/275 "2013-10-03T15:52:20Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > I cannot give you a list, that is not allowed here, and the evidence is so great in numbers, it would take more than 100 pages to explain it; and that is not allowed here. I can’t give you the evidence without that insulting too many people here. I have already tried that here and will not try again. Not allowed? That’s news to me. Also, unclear how providing evidence of a fact can insult others. > [@Mickiel](#): > > Now this I agree with; the majority of people on earth believe in the divine or supernatural; if that were inverted and the majority were Atheists, I am having a hard time seeing what difference it would make. Not as dramatic a difference as many would hope, certainly. It might make the world 20-30% better off, optimistically, but it’d be no utopia. The problems religion causes are human problems; bear in mind that religion is a human invention to meet human needs, and it has rivals that can cause similar problems: nationalism, tribalism, romanticism, and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/276 "2013-10-03T15:52:50Z")
> [@Mickiel](#): > > Now this I agree with; the majority of people on earth believe in the divine or supernatural; if that were inverted and the majority were Atheists, I am having a hard time seeing what difference it would make. Fantastic, I’m thrilled you agree, but do you actually understand? You think there’s no change from “People are special because the ultimate authority in the universe says so” to “People are animals no more special or important in the grand scheme of things than mice”? Maybe you should consider the difference between the late medieval period and the late enlightenment period. The influence of one theistic world view declined steadily in the west while the overall quality of life improved dramatically. ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/277 "2013-10-03T15:55:37Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Not allowed? That’s news to me. Also, unclear how providing evidence of a fact can insult others. quote > > Its unclear to me as well. > > Not as dramatic a difference as many would hope, certainly. It might make the world 20-30% better off, optimistically, but it’d be no utopia. The problems religion causes are human problems; bear in mind that religion is a human invention to meet human needs, and it has rivals that can cause similar problems: nationalism, tribalism, romanticism, and so on. I do agree again; but explain to me why and how it would be 20-30% better? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/278 "2013-10-03T15:57:10Z")
> [@Grey](#): > > Fantastic, I’m thrilled you agree, but do you actually understand? You think there’s no change from “People are special because the ultimate authority in the universe says so” to “People are animals no more special or important in the grand scheme of things than mice”? > > Maybe you should consider the difference between the late medieval period and the late enlightenment period. The influence of one theistic world view declined steadily in the west while the overall quality of life improved dramatically. Explain to me why people are not more special than mice? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/279 "2013-10-03T15:59:00Z")
If we give you an explanation, will you ask us to explain the explanation, then explain the explanation for the explanation? ---
**Author:** ![Mickiel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/0ea827/32.png) [@Mickiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mickiel)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188/280 "2013-10-03T16:02:20Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > If we give you an explanation, will you ask us to explain the explanation, then explain the explanation for the explanation? I have not done that yet. But if it bothers you for me to ask for explination, then I will simply not ask you for one again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-difference-would-it-make-if-atheist-ruled-the-world/670188.md?page=15)