# What distinguishes a pogrom from a race riot? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 19, 2024, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460 "2024-11-19T14:09:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/21 "2024-11-20T20:15:36Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Is it only a genocide if it involves box cars? It’s a genocide if the goal is the wholesale extermination of a given race. The boxcars were just efficient in the pursuit of exterminating the Jews. I don’t see the Israelis trying to be efficient in rounding up Palestinians (including women and children) to be exterminated. I’m not nitpicking. The UN defines it as (read to the bottom…bolding mine): > The United Nations first defined genocide in 1948 in the [Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide.](https://treaties.un.org/doc/publication/unts/volume%2078/volume-78-i-1021-english.pdf) The treaty outlines five acts that can constitute genocide if they are done “with the intent to destroy an ethnic, national, racial or religious group”: > > 1. Killing members of the group > > 2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm > > 3. Deliberately inflicting conditions of life calculated to bring about the group’s physical destruction in whole or in part > > 4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births > > 5. Forcibly transferring children > > **To qualify as genocide, the actions must be done with intent to eliminate an entire group of people.** Without provable intent, a group or individual can still be guilty of “crimes against humanity” or “ethnic cleansing” but not genocide. - [SOURCE](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/whats-the-difference-between-genocide-and-ethnic-cleansing) ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/22 "2024-11-20T20:16:06Z")
It’s handy how there’s always a reason that Rwanda, Congo, Bosnia, Burma, Sudan, Somalia, Bangladesh, Armenia, and so many more can’t have been genocide because Nazi Germany was worse. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/23 "2024-11-20T20:22:05Z")
Armenia and Cambodia (for instance) provide well-acknowledged examples of genocide. > **[Cambodian genocide | Description, Killing Fields, & Facts | Britannica](https://www.britannica.com/event/Cambodian-Genocide)** > > The Cambodian genocide was the systematic murder of up to three million people in Cambodia from 1976 to 1978 during the reign of Marxist leader Pol Pot. > **[The Armenian Genocide (1915-16): Overview](https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/the-armenian-genocide-1915-16-overview)** > > The Armenian genocide (1915–1916) is sometimes called the first genocide of the twentieth century. I have not seen examples of any group claiming that its experience constitutes The One And Only True Genocide. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/24 "2024-11-20T20:23:44Z")
I’d agree Rwanda and Bosnia and Armenia were genocides (and Cambodia). I am not familiar enough with the others to say one way or another (a gap in knowledge I should fill). Cambodia seems a bit different though. I don’t think they were after an ethnic group but just people the government didn’t like which could be anyone. Seems more akin to the French revolution’s Reign of Terror. Still horrific. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/25 "2024-11-20T20:39:01Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’m not nitpicking. The UN defines it as (read to the bottom…bolding mine): …the UN: > [@the UN](#): > > # A genocide is unfolding before our eyes: History will not forgive our inaction, UN Special Committee warns General Assembly 4th Committee report > **[A genocide is unfolding before our eyes: History will not forgive our...](https://www.un.org/unispal/document/un-special-committee-press-release-19nov24/)** > >   19 November 2024 Item 50: Human Rights of the Palestinian People and Other Arabs of the Occupied Territories Delivered by Chair of the Special Committee to Investigate Israeli Practices Affecting the Human Rights of the Palestinian People and... ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/26 "2024-11-20T20:40:37Z")
It was more a gripe about those who say only the Jewish part of those killed by Nazi Germany counts as a genocide and everything else is somehow just ethnic cleansing or something. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/27 "2024-11-20T20:41:17Z")
At the bottom of your cite: > **Document Type:** [Remarks](https://www.un.org/unispal/document-category/remarks/), [Speech](https://www.un.org/unispal/document-category/speech/), [Statement](https://www.un.org/unispal/document-category/statement/) That is someone speaking at the UN. It is not the UN’s official stance on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/28 "2024-11-20T20:48:37Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > That is someone speaking at the UN. It is not the UN’s official stance on the subject. …did you even read it? It wasn’t just some rando speaking at the UN. It was talking about this report. > **[Israel’s war conduct in Gaza ‘consistent with the characteristics of...](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/11/15/middleeast/israel-gaza-genocide-un-special-committee-intl-latam/index.html)** > > The committee added that Israeli officials have publicly supported policies to destroy “vital water, sanitation and food systems” in Gaza as well as prevent access to fuel. Israel has previously rejected accusations of genocide in the Palestinian... And it isn’t just this one report. Historians. Scholars. I’ll provide a list of citations later when I’m not as unwell. But the evidence of genocide is _overwhelming_. It more than fits the definition you provided. The South Africa case made to the ICC that I’ve cited before goes over every single element in the definition and lays out the case. And the thing is, things have gotten significantly WORSE since then. Can I suggest, at the very least, you read the report referenced by the speech? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/29 "2024-11-20T20:55:24Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …did you even read it? Did you read the treaty that defines genocide as a matter of international law I cited earlier? Literally the law as it stands today. I think a disservice is done by using hyperbole. It makes people tune out. It diminishes the power of those words. Ethnic cleansing is plenty bad. There is a lot of mileage to get out of that without resorting to ever more hyperbolic language. And these words mean things. > This article compares ethnic cleansing with genocide. Since the 1990s, ethnic cleansing has become one of the most widely known forms of violence directed against groups. Ethnic cleansing is related to genocide, but ethnic cleansing is focused more closely than genocide on geography and on forced removal of ethnic or related groups from particular areas. The greatest overlap between ethnic cleansing and genocide takes place when forced removal of population leads to a group’s destruction. Ethnic cleansing is often a policy carried out by strong states to mould the population map, especially of border zones, but the breakup of such states also generates power struggles that can lead to ethnic cleansing. Another paradox is that partition or division of ethnically or religiously mixed states has been identified both as a cause of ethnic cleansing and as a possible remedy for ethnic cleansing. - [SOURCE](https://academic.oup.com/edited-volume/40215/chapter-abstract/344567514?redirectedFrom=fulltext) > The term ethnic cleansing refers to the forced removal of an ethnic group from a territory. A United Nations Commission of Experts investigating the former Yugoslavia defined it as “rendering an area ethnically homogeneous by using force or intimidation to remove persons of given groups from the area.” Unlike crimes against humanity, genocide, and war crimes, ethnic cleansing is not recognized as a standalone crime under international law. However, the practice of ethnic cleansing may constitute genocide, crimes against humanity, or war crimes. > > Source: [1993 letter](https://digitallibrary.un.org/record/197158?ln=en) from the UN Secretary-General to the President of the Security Council > > - > - [SOURCE](https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/learn-about-genocide-and-other-mass-atrocities/definitions) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/30 "2024-11-20T21:00:34Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think a disservice is done by using hyperbole. It makes people tune out. It diminishes the power of those words. Like calling what appeared to be from first reports a bunch of ‘football hooligans’ fighting each other a “pogrom”? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/31 "2024-11-20T21:13:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I don’t see the Israelis trying to be efficient in rounding up Palestinians (including women and children) to be exterminated. So its only a genocide if its efficient? > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > The UN defines it as (read to the bottom…bolding mine): That is, I believe, the standard necessary to convict. Since Israel hasn’t been tried for genocide, you can’t point at the UN definition and say it rules out what Israel is doing as “genocide,” because the question of Israel’s intent has not been legally determined yet. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/32 "2024-11-20T21:17:20Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So its only a genocide if its efficient? I think it tells a big part of the story. Is Israel using all its might to kill Palestinians as quickly as possible? They will kill them absolutely anywhere they find them. Or do you think Israel is slow-rolling their murder to make it seem less bad? Also, are you suggesting Israel will kill anyone it deems a Palestinian? Of any age or gender? If soldiers see a three-year-old in the street they’ll shoot the kid (or cart them off to some warehouse to kill them less publicly). That’s genocide. Is Israel doing that? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/33 "2024-11-20T21:28:43Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > It was more a gripe about those who say only the Jewish part of those killed by Nazi Germany counts as a genocide and everything else is somehow just ethnic cleansing or something. Can you identify “those who say” and who they supposedly speak for? ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/34 "2024-11-20T21:40:56Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Can you identify “those who say” and who they supposedly speak for? Random people on the internet on various comments and forums over the years. Of course I don’t have specifics. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/35 "2024-11-20T22:00:09Z")
…a list, courtesy of NimerSultany on Twitter: > **[A Textbook Case of Genocide](https://jewishcurrents.org/a-textbook-case-of-genocide)** > > Israel has been explicit about what it’s carrying out in Gaza. Why isn’t the world listening? > **[Public Statement: Scholars Warn of Potential Genocide in Gaza ](https://twailr.com/public-statement-scholars-warn-of-potential-genocide-in-gaza/)** > > On 15 October 2023, over 800 scholars and practitioners of international law, conflict studies and genocide studies signed a public statement warning of the possibility of genocide being perpetrate… [https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-un-experts-call-international-community-prevent-genocide-against](https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2023/11/gaza-un-experts-call-international-community-prevent-genocide-against) [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14623528.2024.2351261](https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14623528.2024.2351261) > **[Reflecting on Genocidal Intent in the ICJ Case](https://opiniojuris.org/2024/08/02/reflecting-on-genocidal-intent-in-the-icj-case/)** > > \[Maryam Jamshidi is an Associate Professor of Law at University of Colorado Law School\] As Israel has stated again and again since October 7, its military objective in Gaza is to destroy Hamas, the… More at the link. > A direct link to the special report. > **[n2332040.pdf](https://documents.un.org/doc/undoc/gen/n23/320/40/pdf/n2332040.pdf)** > > 373.34 KB The initial case for genocide, bought by South Africa to the ICJ. (I said ICC incorrectly in a couple of places) This one is important, because it goes over the terms of the convention you cited, one-by-one, with evidence for each. Since then, everything has gotten substantially worse. > **[192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf](https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/static/2024/01/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf)** > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Did you read the treaty that defines genocide as a matter of international law I cited earlier? Literally the law as it stands today. I’m sorry, are you an expert on international humanitarian law? I’ve _cited_ the experts. You are just a rando on the internet who can’t even be bothered to read what I posted. You can share as many definitions as you like. What _matters_ here is the evidence, and if the evidence fits the definition. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I think a disservice is done by using hyperbole. It makes people tune out. It diminishes the power of those words. There is no hyperbole. The evidence is _overwhelming_. You just refuse to look at it. Genocide _denial_. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Ethnic cleansing is plenty bad. There is a lot of mileage to get out of that without resorting to ever more hyperbolic language. Nobody is looking for “milage.” What we are looking for is for people to get their heads out of the sand and actually understand what is happening in Gaza right now. From the latest flash update: > [@Gaza](#): > > - For over 40 days, people besieged in North Gaza governorate have been facing diminishing conditions for survival. > - All attempts by the UN to support people in North Gaza have been denied or impeded: bakeries and kitchens have shut down, nutrition support has been suspended, and the refuelling of water and sanitation facilities remains restricted. > > … > > Israeli forces have continued to impose a tightened siege on the area and humanitarian assistance has been largely denied; between 1 and 18 November, 27 out of 31 coordination requests by the UN to access the besieged areas were denied and the remaining four were initially approved but then impeded on the ground. No fuel was let in for water, sanitation and hygiene (WASH) facilities (see more below). > [@](#): > > “Shelters, homes and schools have been burned and bombed to the ground. Numerous families remain trapped under rubble, because fuel for digging equipment is being blocked by the Israeli authorities and first responders have been blocked from reaching them… Supplies to the north are being cut off and people are being pushed further south.” Highlighting the scale of death, destruction and suffering throughout the Strip, the UN official warned that **“[c]onditions of life across Gaza are unfit for human survival,”** with food being insufficient, shelter items extremely scarce and violent armed lootings of humanitarian convoys becoming “increasingly organized along routes from Kerem Shalom [crossing], driven by the collapse of public order and safety.” Bolding mine. I don’t know exactly what you are imagining is happening in Gaza right now. But every humanitarian agency on the ground are saying that what is happening in northern Gaza is making it unfit for human survival. Genocide is too polite a word. They are _hunting_ children with drones. Taking men away in their thousands to be tortured, humiliated and in some cases raped in Israeli dungeons. This isn’t hyperbole. There are multiple reports. Video footage. More from the flash update: > [@](#): > > Detainees reported being subjected to systematic torture within Israeli prisons, including physical assault, sleep deprivation, prolonged periods of handcuffing and blindfolding, and severe deprivation from food, water, and medical care, as media highlighted. > > … > > In North Gaza, where mass casualty incidents and bombardment continue to be reported, access to the Kamal Adwan, Al Awda and Indonesian hospitals remains severely restricted amid severe shortages of medical supplies, fuel and blood units. All attempts by the Health Cluster to deploy an international Emergency Medical Team (EMT) to scale up capacities continue to be blocked by the Israeli authorities. > > … > > In a statement, Al Awda Health and Community Association warned that Al Awda Hospital is operating only four hours a day to continue providing essential health services despite the critical shortage of fuel and is in dire need of food, water, blood units, and oxygen supplies. Food instability. > [@](#): > > The food security situation continues to worsen by the day across the Gaza Strip. More than one million people have not received any food parcels since July or earlier, with the majority being in central and southern Gaza. Many kitchens have already closed, none are operational in North Gaza governorate, only 18 in the Gaza governorate, and approximately 120 remain open throughout central and southern Gaza, of which 100 are producing about 330,000 meals per day but face the constant threat of shutdown amid persistent and increasing shortages of supplies. > > … > > Access to North Gaza continues to be heavily restricted, with all except two missions by Food Security Sector (FSS) partners to deliver food aid (both missions were also rendered incomplete) consistently denied since 6 October and kitchen and subsidized bakeries having completely shut down. Moreover, all Nutrition Cluster partner activities remain suspended, including the treatment of children with acute malnutrition, as well as supplementary feeding for children and pregnant and breastfeeding women. Water and sanitation. > [@](#): > > WASH conditions remain critical across Gaza, particularly in the North Gaza governorate, where approximately 65,000 - 75,000 people face immense challenges in securing access to clean drinking water and where no fuel has been allowed into the area, halting the operation of the remaining water wells, amid ongoing power cuts from Israel and the Gaza power plant. According to the WASH Cluster, since the onset of the Israeli military operation in North Gaza on 6 October 2024, all requests submitted by aid partners for the delivery of supplies and fuel to operate WASH facilities were denied\*, heightening the risks of dehydration and disease outbreaks while about half of Gaza city wells have been inaccessible. > **[Humanitarian Situation Update #239 | Gaza Strip | United Nations Office for...](https://www.ochaopt.org/content/humanitarian-situation-update-239-gaza-strip)** > > For over 40 days, people besieged in North Gaza governorate have been facing diminishing conditions for survival. I can’t emphasise enough: this is an _incomplete_ picture. Because there are no foreign media organisations operating in Gaza (unless embedded with occupying forces). And Palestinian media have been systematically targeted and eliminated. The few remaining journalists have been labelled “terrorists” by Israel, wanting us to believe they do dual duties as "sniper, infantry soldier, fighter, captain, training coordinator and “propaganda.” And humanitarian agencies have been targeted as well. We don’t have an accurate picture of what is happening on the ground. It will be significantly worse than what the agencies are able to report. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If soldiers see a three-year-old in the street they’ll shoot the kid (or cart them off to some warehouse to kill them less publicly). They’ll just kill them with drones. [Cite.](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7893vpy2gqo) > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > That’s genocide. Is Israel doing that? It’s utterly laughable that your entire argument is predicated on a _strict definition of genocide_, and then you post three random things that are not measured by the convention and say, “see? This is what genocide really is!” Apologies to puzzlegal for the hijack, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/36 "2024-11-20T22:08:51Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > I’ve _cited_ the experts. I think my citations beat yours. - I’ve got the UN treaty that most governments have signed defining this. Literally the law that defines this internationally. - I’ve got PBS. - I’ve got Oxford. - I’ve got the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. You’ve got what? Some fringe publications few have ever heard of? Nah…I prefer my cites vs. yours. You need to do better (but you can’t). ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/37 "2024-11-20T22:12:40Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I’ve got the UN treaty that most governments have signed defining this. Literally the law that defines this internationally. You don’t, actually, for reasons described in my previous post. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Some fringe publications few have ever heard of? You’ve never heard of the BBC? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/38 "2024-11-20T22:13:48Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think there needs to be an element of the majority, members of the overculture, being the perpetrators. Thinking about it, I feel this is the answer. In a race riot, you have an ethnic group that is not in power directing violence against the ethnic group that is in power. In a pogrom, you have the ethnic group that is in power directing violence against an ethnic group that is not in power. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/39 "2024-11-20T22:14:16Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > You don’t, actually, for reasons described in my previous post. I do, actually: > [Genocide Convention - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_Convention) ISTM many here just want “genocide” to mean whatever they want it to mean. Never mind convention. Nevermind definitions. Nevermind the actual law. It just is whatever you (general you) think it is. That’s a shitty way to go about things. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2024, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460/40 "2024-11-20T22:18:22Z")
I was just thinking that what the board is really missing is a thread about whether Israel is committing genocide or not. Thankfully, we have this thread with its, sadly, off topic OP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-distinguishes-a-pogrom-from-a-race-riot/1010460.md?page=3)