Space Vampire, I still disagree with your sentiments, but you have my apologies for calling you a putz.
Might I suggest that if this other board is full of bigots, you stop going there?
Good job Space Vampire. I think you’re on your way. For what it’s worth, I actually understood the position you were taking in the first instance - sadly, the way you worded your posts left little room for compromise and a few of us Aussies (who rightfully pride ourselves on being magnanimous and objective) called you on it.
What’s important though is that you understand the distinction and I reckon the trick to employ in future is to look upon the twits of this world as the cancer which eats away at all the good will which would otherwise exist.
Passing thought … since soccer (football) is not deeply engrained in the American psyche, with presumably not much coverage in the media … would it be fair to say that most Americans know nothing about the “yob culture” it gave rise to in Britain since the 70s? For every well-mannered gentleman in Britain, there’s a foul-mouthed oik. :rolleyes:
(Not anti-football, just anti those who use it as a vehicle to express their innate brutishness).
Julie
Shrinking Violet - I’d suggest you’re perceiving the extreme examples of tribalism thrust into a microcosm of “opportunity” more than anything else. Certainly, after the the tragic events of 1989 when some 80 odd spectators were crushed due to dreadful mismanagement by the Police outside of the stadium in question, the English Football Association soon realised that stadiums which only allowed fixed “individual seating” immediately placed a handbrake on the holligans to move and wander in search of “the enemy”, and football holliganism soon died a welcome death not long after.
Damn, I spelt “hooliganism” incorrectly - not once, but TWICE!
OK, Im English, Im 26 and Im a football fan (soccer). I support Sunderland and have done since I was a kid. We have a BIG local hatred for a nearby City called Newcastle which stems back decades. Anyway we automatically hate each other and its been going on that long about 85% of the cities population can’t remember what it was over or have never known.
I’ve tried getting into US Sports, watched American Football for a season back when I was 13 and still don’t fully understand it other than Rugby but with padding and better celebrations. I followed Basketball for a few years (was a lakers fan) but got a bit bored of that to be honest as felt not much skill involved.
Ice hockey seems to be a bit easy if you can skate.
But I love most Americans and love your country. I’ve found you guys to be very friendly and very wise to AMERICAN relationships…so I will be travelling there early next year for a new life. So any advise on where to find the best gals please let me know (and I’ve been told to avoid San Fransico).
I don’t think this is accurate at all. At my fairly typical State school, your only exposure to the Bard was if you opted to study English Literature. And I was never taught much about the British monarchy. History too was optional after age 14.
What proportion of Britons could name all monarchs of the 20th century, in order? Very few I imagine, I know I would struggle. Compare this to Americans, many of whom seem to be able to reel of names of Presidents with ease. But I guess the presidency is more important to them than the monarchy is to us.
Um…yeah…not quite. Hillsborough, is what I think you are referring to. However, the change to individual seating has not stopped football hooliganism. Violence still goes on in the stands, only most of this is picked up by new cctv cameras and stewards, but not all. The introduction of these methods simply means that violence is carried out on the street - mainly at stations and other exit routes from stadiums. Not to mention the appalling record of English footy fans abroad. The football hooligans have also become very organised and plan some violent meetings with army like precision.
Yeah, NaughtyMe - I was aware of that. In many respects the problem has been merely “moved on” as it were. My original post related specifically to the “impression” that many Americans have of football hooliganism “within” a given football stadium.
I just can’t seem to stop myself. I’ve never bookmarked it and have even tried deleting it from my history to make it less convenient to go back, but I always do. I seem to like making myself angry, I always click on topics that sound controversial.
But I’m deleting it from my history again.
I don’t, I hate that word. I use the word “mum”, as does my mum. My dad calls his mum “mam” though and it makes me want to cringe.
USRAM: Depends what sort of schooling you had and to some degree the years of your schooling.
I had Shakespeare rammed at me 5 days aweek and mighty sick I was of it.
History was not an option with me, the only option I got was to take either German or French or carry on with both, I chose German because I found it far easier.
As regards the Monarchy this again was shoved at us for 2 years until the school principals dropped it at the insistance of the majority of pupils parents.
I admire the British and the Australians for amazing reserve, self control, and strength. In countries where the sound of a woman’s voice asking you the most mundane thing will sound like what can only be described as ‘verbal orgasm’, how you manage to maintain control is beyond me…
I agree with your opinion that it depends on the sort of schooling. While not having it rammed down my throat 5 days a week, I went through Romeo and Juliet, Much Ado About Nothing, and about 2 others.
I went to a fairly typical secondary school in England and never had to read Shakespeare (that was about 1981 to 1986). I also don’t recall spending a lot of time studying the monarchy so I’m not sure you are correct with your statement. I certainly couldn’t name all the monarchs of the 20th century. In fact, I can name the current one and the one before that but then I’m at a loss (then again I despise the monarchy and have absolutely no desire to learn about it)
Yes, “All” was a bit too general, although I would say that the reading of Shakespeare is still fairly widespread in secondary schools.
I was in Secondary school from 1986 to 1992 and read Othello, Romeo and Juliet, Anthony and Cleopatra, Macbeth and Hamlet.
And that is just what I can remember right now. Generally it was at least one play a year.
It wasn’t my statement, I was quoting spogga.
I’ve only been to Great Britain once, but liked it a lot and would like to go back and visit more places.
I loved the way that people automatically lined up politely for anything. And knew how to navigate traffic circles (roundabouts?) safely.
Your P.M. would kick butt in a debate with any American politician I’ve heard. What amazes me is that I’ve been told his capability in this is not all that unusual in British politicians. Awesome.
The entire reserve and self control, and the humor, is wonderful. The deadpan delivery and almost self-mocking tone sure beats Jerry Lewis et. al.
Personally, I love the British, and the Irish. My two best vacations were in London and Southwest Ireland. Women who speak with either accent can be incredibly sexy and the best music and authors came from the islands. (Beatles, Pratchett, Gaiman for starters)
United Kingdom: “If you like the weather, you’ll love the food.”
Worst food on earth. Seriously. I lost weight every time I went there - which was a good thing. Fish and Chips with enough grease dripping through the newspaper to keep a car running for years. Undercooked bacon and truly wretched sausage…and tea, everywhere tea…coffee was made with a spoonful of some godawful pulver with lukewarm water added…it tasted like bad tea. If it weren’t for Indian restaurants, the average tourist would die.
I hated the fact that for the average schmuck who lived in London, it was very expensive…beer, tobacco, rent, gas, electricity. But luxury items seemed almost cheap compared to the rest of Europe - but still out of reach for the average worker.
A friend of mine told me his rent. I thought that wasn’t too much, until he told me that was per week, not per month! Unbelievable.
But I met a lot of Brits living in Germany…very good friends, lots of laughs, lots of parties, lots of “pub crawls” and great memories.
The right-wing Brits are almost as obnoxious as the right-wing Americans, there are some real asshole racists who pretend not to be, just like here, and there are also some snobs who feel they are truly enlightened - just like here.
I love the British sense of humor. I love the music. I love the films. The television series are generally top notch, and even the low-brow fare is funny in its own way.
Americans do seem to have a thing with British accents…and I have yet to meet a Brit in the US who doesn’t use that to their advantage. Maybe because I knew so many, I find it less exotic, and find the attempt to sound like Hugh Grant truly annoying…especially when you know they are laying it on thick for the benefit of the American cocktail party audience, “Hurry luv, we shan’t be late for the fancy dress ball!”
But as far as the OP: I think it is fair to say there is more than just a mutual fondness for each other. The US would never let anything happen to the UK without taking it personal, and I was truly moved by the UK outpouring of heartfelt grief after 9/11. You can bicker over little things, but when it comes down to it…
even the Bush regime wouldn’t do anything to jeopardize the relations between the UK and USA…it is maybe the only foreign policy people in the American heartland can understand.