# What do CTs really want? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2006, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718 "2006-04-07T14:22:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/41 "2006-04-10T21:59:31Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > Oh man. ☹ I know way too many people who think this, as well. Unfortunately, we’re going to get to see really soon just how wrong you are. You better not be whining when it starts, because I told you so! Actually, you haven’t told us. What threatens? You mentioned possible environmental catastrophe, which is a real possibility – we’re **totally** fucked if the sea levels rise even two meters – but that need not be the product of any conspiracy. “Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.” Do you believe in any particular conspiracy out to destroy our “way of life”? Who is behind it and why? ---
**Author:** ![bigpappadiaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a698b9/32.png) [@bigpappadiaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bigpappadiaz)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/42 "2006-04-10T22:16:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Instead of wasting your time chasing conspiracies, why not get out there and do something constructive? Well there’s not much I can do as long as you old farts refuse to believe in anything. At this point I already know we’re screwed. Fucking with you guys helps pass the time at work. > [@](#): > > Still waitin’, man. Well these old guys are bringing it, I’m sure they’d hate to keep you waiting much longer. > [@](#): > > “Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity.” And you think stupidity has led us here? Given our ancient history and all the myths and legends of awesome battles, how little we know of our past, and all the hype about the Bible that _nobody_ saw this coming? With all the secrecy and coverups in science (like the nature of tornadoes and hurricanes) I find that even harder to believe. > [@](#): > > Who is behind it and why? That’s pretty hard to pinpoint. Basically though they’re making sure the people of the world don’t figure it all out. Men of science, our leaders, the people who blew up the WTC, the ones who went around burning ancient libraries to the ground so that we won’t remember, the ones who jailed Plato and forced his teacher to drink poison. Maybe some awesome event will come across and save us, but with the way we’ve been disrespecting nature, cutting down the forests, and fishing out the seas I don’t see it happening. I think everybody will run around cutting down trees for fuel and eating the last of the animals, so that there won’t be enough of anything for the cycle to continue. Why is it happening? The same reason the Tower of Babel came crashing down, and the same reason Atlantis was sunk. We know too much. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/43 "2006-04-10T22:21:37Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > With all the secrecy and coverups in science (like the nature of tornadoes and hurricanes) I find that even harder to believe. This one I gotta hear… What exactly IS the “nature of tornadoes and hurricanes” ? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/44 "2006-04-10T22:29:51Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > And you think stupidity has led us here? Given our ancient history and all the myths and legends of awesome battles, how little we know of our past, and all the hype about the Bible that _nobody_ saw this coming? Those things have nothing whatsoever to do with what’s “coming,” if by that you mean ecological catastrophe. People did not start predicting that sooner because the conditions for it did not exist. Nobody in the 19th Century could have imagined the incredible global population growth, industrialization growth, and resultant pollution and climate change of the 20th and 21st. And that **is** the result of stupidity. What reason have you to think otherwise? We all have to live on the same planet – what reason would **anybody** have to deliberately engineer the destruction of its ecosystem? (Unless you’re gonna bring ET’s into it . . .) > [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > With all the secrecy and coverups in science (like the nature of tornadoes and hurricanes) I find that even harder to believe. 😕 You mentioned that in another thread but I still don’t know what you’re talking about. > [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > That’s pretty hard to pinpoint. Basically though they’re making sure the people of the world don’t figure it all out. Men of science, our leaders, the people who blew up the WTC, the ones who went around burning ancient libraries to the ground so that we won’t remember, the ones who jailed Plato and forced his teacher to drink poison. :dubious: Framing it in those terms, the “they” you speak of would have to be a single, self-aware, organized conspiracy **thousands** of years old. Which, I hope you will concede, is a preposterous theory on its face. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. Have you got anything at all to back that up? Plato was never jailed, BTW. He was, once, briefly sold into slavery by Dionsysos, the tyrant of Syracuse, but that was a personal dispute. > [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > Why is it happening? The same reason the Tower of Babel came crashing down, and the same reason Atlantis was sunk. We know too much. Now you’ve lost me. I thought your point was that we know too **little.** As for Atlantis, Plato’s account does not mention **why** it sank, but implies a routine natural disaster, as do most Greek myths on the subject. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis#Plato](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantis#Plato) And I hope you are using “the Tower of Babel” as a figure of speech, not a historical example. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/45 "2006-04-10T22:32:03Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > Why is it happening? The same reason the Tower of Babel came crashing down, and the same reason Atlantis was sunk. The concept of the Tower of Babel (or Egypt, or Montezuma, or Xelhua, or India, depending on who you ask) is little more than a retconn for tying all the races and languages to Adam & Eve, and Atlantis was almost certainly a figment of Plato’s imagination. > [@](#): > > _We know too much._ Know too much of what? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/46 "2006-04-10T22:34:35Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > This one I gotta hear… What exactly IS the “nature of tornadoes and hurricanes” ? Ha! He can’t suffer you fools…witness his contemporary, Tom Cruise; only he knows the nature of psychology! And so can you with weekly payments of $39.99… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/47 "2006-04-10T22:36:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Those things have nothing whatsoever to do with what’s “coming,” if by that you mean ecological catastrophe. People did not start predicting that sooner because the conditions for it did not exist. Nobody in the 19th Century could have imagined the incredible global population growth, industrialization growth, and resultant pollution and climate change of the 20th and 21st. And that **is** the result of stupidity. What reason have you to think otherwise? We all have to live on the same planet – what reason would **anybody** have to deliberately engineer the destruction of its ecosystem? (Unless you’re gonna bring ET’s into it . . .) Apparently he’s trying to bring “God” into it. ---
**Author:** ![ZebraShaSha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/eada6e/32.png) [@ZebraShaSha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZebraShaSha)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/48 "2006-04-10T23:38:03Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > Maybe because the young, bright minds have the mental flexibility necessary to view the world much differently than your rigid, old mind can handle? It won’t be until our way of life is gone that you’ll be able to see what’s happening around the world, and that’s all we’re trying to preserve. At least I am, anyways. I’m scared to death of the next several years. When I was a kid, I remember seeing some lights in the sky on the way back from a soccer game or something, and my sister and I believing it to be a UFO. Nevermind that it was a well documented and predicted solar phenome, my sister and I _knew_ it was an alien ship of some sort. That night, I slept in her bed, and we wore all yellow because someone on some talk show said aliens hated the color yellow. I’m 18 now, and that only happened maybe 10 years ago, but looking back it was rather silly. It was a fantastic and outlandish story, and my sister and I fell for it, because we were young and impressionable. As they say, when you leave childhood, it’s time to put away childish things. I’ve noticed in my short time on this earth that people will believe damn near anything you want them to. My dad listens to this one radio show, and they can get him to buy almost anything. He takes tons of vitamins, none of which have really been tested by the FDA, and more than likely do nothing. He used to try to get me to put pig fat on my face, because someone told him it would cure acne. He drinks liquid spinach for dinner, for no known reason. People just simply want to believe in the fantastic, regardless of veracity. Lots of us on the Dope are outspoken for science and the scientific process, but not all of the world is like that. Some people have a disdain for academia, and feel that dismissing facts simply allows them to disapear. You can give them a cold, harsh, logical explanation for why the world is the way it is, but they then turn around and can simply call you an Ivory tower elite in cohorts with the government, and you are expected to defend your stance. Up until Galileo, empiricism wasn’t even well defined. People throughout history have always used whimsical stories to explain what they couldn’t understand, or when they could, what they couldn’t accept. That is why snake oil sold so well before, and why quartz crystals are being sold today. Sometimes, the truth is so complex, so cold, and so outside our view of justice, like knowing there simply isn’t a cure for cancer, that it is far easier to believe in some made up, easily dismissable “truth.” After all, people will believe anything you tell them, if you sound confident enough. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/49 "2006-04-11T00:14:30Z")
> [@PBear42](#): > > Nitpick. This is a loanword from French. The [male form](http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/blond) has no “e.” 🙂 I had looked at the over-the-top macho posturing expressed by **bigpappadiaz** and figured that it was an attempt by a young girl to appear male. I have been assuming that she was just having us on with the username. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/50 "2006-04-11T00:35:03Z")
Without addressing any of the specific people who have recently stopped by this board I have a few ideas on why some people believe in CT’s. 1.) **CT’s are fun**. They’re a vast convoluted science fiction thriller brought to life, like the _X-files_ or _Watchmen_ and you are the star! People believe in CT for the same reason they buy thrillers or watch movies. It’s exciting to speculate on a vast all-powerful conspiracy. Since you don’t have to prove anything or do any detective work, it’s an endless source of amusement. 2.) **CT’s are complex**. Part of the amusement of CT’s is their complexity. Some of the CT fans I’ve met IRL are very smart people with weak education. CT provides these people an ability to excercize their minds without discipline or training. Also, one has access to the secret world, the truths behind the illusion. This is a heady feeling. 3.) **CT’s are oddly reassuring**. One thing I agree with **bigpappadiaz** on is that the world is pretty messed up. And it’s probably going to get worse before it gets better. It’s actually somewhat comforting to believe the messed-up state of the world is caused by a vast conspiracy. A conspiracy can perhaps be defeated, however slim that hope may be. The reality is far more depressing. The world is was and always will be messed up because we–all of us–are a stupid violent short-sighted species. We may progress, but it will be a slow and painful process. 4.) **CT’s stroke the ego**. It’s a huge boost to the ego to believe that you are one of the elect, one who has escaped the bonds put upon the rest of the “sheeple” to stare boldly at the awful truth. You are both more insightful and braver than those fools out there who blindly accept consensus reality. Note how often CT Buffs urge us to “use your minds.” It doesn’t do much good to tell them “We are using our minds, we just reach different conclusions than you.” See _The Matrix_ for a perfect description of how CT fans imagine themselves. 5.) **madness**. Again I’m not talking about anyone on this board, none of whom I’ve met. But there’s a rather obvious connection between CT belief and Paranoid Delusion. I’m not saying it’s true of every CT believer, but it’s certainly true of some. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/51 "2006-04-11T00:57:08Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > Fucking with you guys helps pass the time at work. However, banning trolls (which is what you have just copped to being) helps me pass the time waiting for the hamsters to load other pages. This is an official Warning that you are out of line. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![bigpappadiaz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a698b9/32.png) [@bigpappadiaz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bigpappadiaz)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/52 "2006-04-11T00:57:22Z")
Bah. So the CT bunch have fun with their hobbies, are a complex bunch, have hope, and are arrogant? Hmmmm… Not having their findings recognized or even merely thought over can really piss someone off, and so the arrogance can be a compensation for that poor, pitifull soul. This apathy can also really piss someone off, if they believe that they’re findings deserve merit. Like electromagnetics in our Universe. Suffer the poor fool who tries to convince anyone that it deserves its place in celestial mechanics. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/53 "2006-04-11T00:59:09Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > Bah. So the CT bunch have fun with their hobbies, are a complex bunch, have hope, and are arrogant? Hmmmm… Not having their findings recognized or even merely thought over can really piss someone off, and so the arrogance can be a compensation for that poor, pitifull soul. This apathy can also really piss someone off, if they believe that they’re findings deserve merit. Like electromagnetics in our Universe. Suffer the poor fool who tries to convince anyone that it deserves its place in celestial mechanics. You know, most conspiracy theorists jump at the chance to **explain** their theories to a receptive audience. And we still have no idea what yours are. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/54 "2006-04-11T01:01:02Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > Bah. So the CT bunch have fun with their hobbies, are a complex bunch, have hope, and are arrogant? Hmmmm… Not having their findings recognized or even merely thought over can really piss someone off, and so the arrogance can be a compensation for that poor, pitifull soul. This apathy can also really piss someone off, if they believe that they’re findings deserve merit. Like electromagnetics in our Universe. Suffer the poor fool who tries to convince anyone that it deserves its place in celestial mechanics. But nothing you believe in is true. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/55 "2006-04-11T01:03:42Z")
> [@Larry Borgia](#): > > But nothing you believe in is true. How can you say that? You don’t know **what bigpappadiaz** believes! None of us do! ---
**Author:** ![Huerta88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/82dd89/32.png) [@Huerta88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Huerta88)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/56 "2006-04-11T01:04:18Z")
> [@Barbarian](#): > > In previous centuries Conspiracy theorists would have turned to religion, and created choirs of angels to predetermine everything. Now they focus on what people do. (or supposedly do, depending on which side of the fence you sit.) Bingo. Philip Dick (a man who knew a thing or two about the CT impulse) said in one of his lucid intervals that (paraphrase) just because religion goes away doesn’t mean the religious impulse does. This applies in a number of ways: The moralism and preachy side of religion find their secular expression (some would say) in the modern nanny state. The appeal of a cosmology, an overarching purpose to seemingly random events – a Theory Of Everything – is obvious, and can be met in part by a grand CT. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/57 "2006-04-11T01:12:17Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > How can you say that? You don’t know **what bigpappadiaz** believes! None of us do! Not even him! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/58 "2006-04-11T02:43:51Z")
> [@bigpappadiaz](#): > > Not having their findings recognized or even merely thought over can really piss someone off, and so the arrogance can be a compensation for that poor, pitifull soul. This apathy can also really piss someone off, if they believe that they’re findings deserve merit. While this explains the psychology behind various foamings of the mouth and hysteria-based actions, it does not, unfortunately, impose upon the sane and the knowledgable an obligation to humor those so afflicted. When a toddler has a fit at the check-out counter because “his” candy has been taken away to be rung up, neither the parent nor the cashier has an obligation (or even a right) to return the candy to the child before it has been included in the purchase total. One may understand the outraged cries of the toddler–who mistakenly believes that it is “his” candy–without acquiescing to his demands or stealing from the store simply to encourage him to be quiet. ---
**Author:** ![Stan\_Shmenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/94ad74/32.png) [@Stan\_Shmenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stan_Shmenge)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2006, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/59 "2006-04-23T06:39:04Z")
> [@](#): > > In 1999, he published The Biggest Secret, in which he wrote that the world is controlled by a race of reptilian humanoids, known as the Babylonian Brotherhood, and that many prominent figures are actually “reptilian,” including George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Queen Elizabeth II, Henry Kissinger, and **Kris Kristofferson**. He believes that these reptilians engage in child molestation, blood-drinking, human sacrifice and Satanism. I always knew there was something strange about that guy. 😃 I, for one, welcome our reptillian overlords! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2006, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718/60 "2006-05-03T21:47:49Z")
The latest nonsense from my favorite CT: > [@](#): > > yeah i’m a slave due to my parents being uninformed when i was born…i have seized my freedom…still working on the liberty part… > > “Guarantor” A person who pledges collateral for the contract of another, but separately, as part of an independent contract with the obligee of the original contract — Duhaime’s Law Dictionary. > > It is not difficult to see that a state - created birth certificate with an ALL-CAPS name is a document, evidencing debt the moment it is issued. Once a state has registered a birth document with U.S. Department of Commerce, the Department notifies the Treasury Department, which takes out a loan from the Federal Reserve. The Treasury uses the loan to purchase a bond (the Fed holds a “purchase money security interest” in the bond) from the Department of Commerce, which invests the sale proceeds in the stock or bond market. > > So the child just became the slave … can you see how this has happened? Until you take control, in other words “rebut”, you will remain the slave. Slaves do not have freedoms… and that is what we all (or almost all) have been since the day we were born, and our innocent parents , and their parents, and their parents… before us. Don’t you think it is time that we woke up to the truth? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-cts-really-want/351718.md?page=4)