# What do foreign Dopers think about the UK expenses scandal? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 11, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040 "2009-05-11T15:57:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/61 "2009-05-21T13:01:36Z")
[An MP even claimed for a house for his _ducks_.](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8060563.stm) 😃 You know, some commentators have said we shouldn’t be annoyed about this because there are bigger problems out there, like taking backhanders from lobbyists; I think they’re wrong, partly because two wrongs don’t cancel each other out, and partly because they’re missing the point - lots of these stories are really bloody funny. A moat? Chandeliers? Multiple toilet seats?\* A home for ducks? The politicians have done the satirists out of a job this week. 😃 (This one I think is a reasonable claim, actually, but it’s still a bit funny). ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/62 "2009-05-21T13:23:09Z")
You guys need to dig up Screaming Lord Sutch. I think these things are coming to light to take the heat off our politicians. Moats, duck islands? ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/63 "2009-05-21T13:51:11Z")
Well to be fair, the ducks just gotta live somewhere. I mean… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sri\_Theo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f04885/32.png) [@Sri\_Theo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sri_Theo)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/64 "2009-05-22T01:28:43Z")
I was wondering does anyone have statistics on the total amount they’ve fiddled so far? TBH from the little I’ve read it hasn’t exactly been staggering amounts of money. Kinda disappointing really… 😛 ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/65 "2009-05-22T06:43:07Z")
> [@Sri\_Theo](#): > > I was wondering does anyone have statistics on the total amount they’ve fiddled so far? TBH from the little I’ve read it hasn’t exactly been staggering amounts of money. > > Kinda disappointing really… > > 😛 Let’s put it this way, the money they’ve fiddled is a hell of a sight more than you, me or any other doper is likely to have stashed under the mattress. Add the whole lot together and over the years those bastard politicians have defrauded the taxpayer out of millions. Fuckers ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 8:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/66 "2009-05-22T08:37:14Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > Let’s put it this way, the money they’ve fiddled is a hell of a sight more than you, me or any other doper is likely to have stashed under the mattress. > > Add the whole lot together and over the years those bastard politicians have defrauded the taxpayer out of millions. That’s not really a lot of money, anymore. I see your point- Embezzlement is Bad, M’kay?- but really, there are degrees of “misappropriation of taxpayer’s money” and most of the items I’ve seen bandied about in this “Scandal” have been something that’s made me think “You know, if I was a politican, I’d probably be trying to claim that too.” ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/67 "2009-05-22T10:42:30Z")
One aspect of this that overseas Dopers may not be aware of is that this not just any old ordinary news story. This has dominated all reports in all media for weeks now. This has turned in to a very big deal, and shoved all other news stories in to the sidelines. I think this will go one of two ways. Once the media lose interest in the story, the shock value dissipates, and they bring in a more sensible way of policing MPs’ expenses, we’ll all shrug our shoulders, and life will go on pretty much as normal, or this really will change the face of British politics and democracy, with the role and mix of MPs completely altered. So this could be very significant. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/68 "2009-05-22T11:07:15Z")
I hope all those involved get their arses kicked. And I disagree that there are degrees of misappropriation. If you have violated the fraud principle, it is not quantified. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/69 "2009-05-22T11:53:40Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > You guys need to dig up Screaming Lord Sutch. Dear God, I can’t even begin to imagine what members of the OMRLP would be claiming on their expenses. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/70 "2009-05-22T13:01:01Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > I hope all those involved get their arses kicked. > > And I disagree that there are degrees of misappropriation. If you have violated the fraud principle, it is not quantified. By fraud “principle”, do you mean _law_? It is not clear that any of these things were violations of law, and it’s arguable that the laws were written so loosely to allow just such expenses (perhaps written in an earlier, more accepting of corruption, environment). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/71 "2009-05-22T13:35:32Z")
> [@NineToTheSky](#): > > One aspect of this that overseas Dopers may not be aware of is that this not just any old ordinary news story. This has dominated all reports in all media for weeks now. This has turned in to a very big deal, and shoved all other news stories in to the sidelines. Do you get the impression that this is Such a Big Deal because of the timing (ie., against the background of public outrage over the recession), or would it have been just as bad if it happened while the public was generally content? See, over here, everyone is pissed at “the Wall Street fat cats” and the upper management of the car makers, _and_ Congress and the Bush Administration. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/72 "2009-05-22T13:41:05Z")
Let’s be sensible and realistic about this business shall we? The MPs who have claimed for all sorts of stuff are nothing more than greedy money grabbing crooks. I don’t care if they say they’ve stuck to what is allowable, the fact remains that these people have claimed for items/goods which they should not have done. Duck houses? Do me a fucking favour ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/73 "2009-05-22T13:56:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Do you get the impression that this is Such a Big Deal because of the timing (ie., against the background of public outrage over the recession), or would it have been just as bad if it happened while the public was generally content? > > See, over here, everyone is pissed at “the Wall Street fat cats” and the upper management of the car makers, _and_ Congress and the Bush Administration. Yep, the timing certainly helps with the public interest, although the public would always have been interested in the funnier aspects of it. FWIW, the timing of the story is partly down to the Freedom of Information Act. MPs fought for ages to prevent the FoIA from applying to their own expenses, spending hundreds of thousands in legal fees challenging a journalist who was trying to get the information she was legally entitled to see. That’s another reason for the anger about these expenses. I don’t care that the sums don’t add up to all that much. When you look at any individual frauds or types of fraud, they never add up to much as a proportion of the GDP, but does that mean we shouldn’t be annoyed about _any_ fraud? Of course not. That’s like someone who killed ten people saying that we shouldn’t be angry at him because he only killed a 0.0000006 of the population. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/74 "2009-05-22T14:47:42Z")
And this sort of thing really annoys me. [Link](http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2009/05/22/2578833.htm) She has been caught with her nose in the trough and now she is talking depression and suicide. Nonsense. They expect high standards from civil/ public servants and believe that such standards don’t apply to them. Hypocrites. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/75 "2009-05-22T14:56:37Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Do you get the impression that this is Such a Big Deal because of the timing (ie., against the background of public outrage over the recession), or would it have been just as bad if it happened while the public was generally content? > > See, over here, everyone is pissed at “the Wall Street fat cats” and the upper management of the car makers, _and_ Congress and the Bush Administration. No. I think this is completely independent of anything else that is going on. The British is public is angry because we’re being taken for a ride by the very people who are supposed to be responsible for national morals and values. They have been shown - have been ‘outed’, because they refused to be publicly accountable - to be, at best, devoid of morals, and, at worst, criminals. It must be said, though, that there have been a few who haven’t made massive claims. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/76 "2009-05-22T15:20:58Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > And this sort of thing really annoys me. > > [Link](http://abc.com.au/news/stories/2009/05/22/2578833.htm) > > She has been caught with her nose in the trough and now she is talking depression and suicide. Nonsense. They expect high standards from civil/ public servants and believe that such standards don’t apply to them. > > Hypocrites. Well boo fucking hoo and aw bless. My heart bleeds for the poor misunderstood MPs. “More than a human being can take” Tough titty lady, you should have thought about that before you dipped your conk into what you and your ilk thought was a bottomless well ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/77 "2009-05-22T15:25:05Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > Well boo fucking hoo and aw bless. My heart bleeds for the poor misunderstood MPs. > > “More than a human being can take” > > Tough titty lady, you should have thought about that before you dipped your conk into what you and your ilk thought was a bottomless well Well spoken, that member from Manchester. You see, we, the British public are angry. All of us. I can’t remember that happening before to this extent. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/78 "2009-05-22T15:30:58Z")
I remember a big kerfuffle about Thatcher’s poll tax (poll tax increase?) in 1989 or thereabouts, and my mother receiving a phone call from the council to ask if she objected to paying it. I was only 7 or so, though, so I didn’t understand it. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/79 "2009-05-22T15:34:54Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I remember a big kerfuffle about Thatcher’s poll tax (poll tax increase?) in 1989 or thereabouts, and my mother receiving a phone call from the council to ask if she objected to paying it. > > I was only 7 or so, though, so I didn’t understand it. Yes, people did get very upset about that. But Thatcher managed to divide the country over most issues (the miners for another example). This time we’re united. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040/80 "2009-05-22T15:36:18Z")
But the guilty MPs are from all three parties, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-foreign-dopers-think-about-the-uk-expenses-scandal/496040.md?page=5)