# What do freemasons do, exactly? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 22, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268 "2015-11-22T04:06:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/21 "2015-11-23T20:17:01Z")
> [@Bones\_Daley](#): > > I have no idea of the percentages, but I wouldn’t mind wagering that the total number of Catholic, Jewish, and Moslem masons is greatly outweighed by the number of WASPS. What about the number of Prince Hall Masons? ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/22 "2015-11-23T21:05:06Z")
> [@Bones\_Daley](#): > > I have no idea of the percentages, but I wouldn’t mind wagering that the total number of Catholic, Jewish, and Moslem masons is greatly outweighed by the number of WASPS. Catholic, certainly, as the Roman Catholic Church forbids its members from joining the Masons, has since the 18th century, and created the Knights of Columbus so that Catholic men could do that stuff, too. ---
**Author:** ![bubba001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f17d59/32.png) [@bubba001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bubba001)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/23 "2015-11-24T00:03:38Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Catholic, certainly, as the Roman Catholic Church forbids its members from joining the Masons, has since the 18th century, and created the Knights of Columbus so that Catholic men could do that stuff, too. I live in a rural area, and while there have been catholics from the beginning, the K of C was only started here a few years ago. At that time I stopped going to church. I had been sitting in the same pew for 20+ years, and suddenly it was reserved for the KC guys. I have nothing against the guys who are my friends, but I resented the priest playing this game. He was trying to pump up membership in KC. Several of us stopped going, or switched churches, including 2 ushers. ---
**Author:** ![bubba001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f17d59/32.png) [@bubba001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bubba001)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/24 "2015-11-24T00:05:26Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Catholic, certainly, as the Roman Catholic Church forbids its members from joining the Masons, has since the 18th century, and created the Knights of Columbus so that Catholic men could do that stuff, too. The Masons of Ireland have their own grand lodge. So Maybe the Vatican isn’t always able to tell catholics how to live? ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/25 "2015-11-24T01:38:18Z")
> [@bubba001](#): > > The Masons of Ireland have their own grand lodge. So Maybe the Vatican isn’t always able to tell catholics how to live? That goes without saying. Many modern Catholics don’t always obey the ban on artificial means of birth control either. As you observed, your lodge has Catholics in it. But officially, it’s prohibited, which probably does cause some Catholics not to join: > **[Papal ban of Freemasonry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_ban_of_Freemasonry)** > > The Catholic Church first prohibited Catholics from membership in Masonic organizations and other secret societies in 1738. Since then, at least eleven popes have made pronouncements about the incompatibility of Catholic doctrines and Freemasonry. > From 1738 until 1983, Catholics who publicly associated with, or publicly supported, Masonic organizations were censured with automatic excommunication. Since 1983, the prohibition on membership exists in a different form. Although there was some co... At least it’s not grounds for excommunication any more. ---
**Author:** ![Cardboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Cardboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardboard)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/26 "2015-11-24T01:45:01Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > We are a Fraternity of good men, who are always aspiring to be better men. We don’t care about religion, we don’t discuss politics in the Lodge room, and we provide good counsel when a Brother is doing something we don’t agree with. That’s the long and short of it. > > We are not a charity, but we do charitable things - not always being recognized. We engage in philanthropic, charitable, and other activities for fun and fraternal enjoyment. There is very little that is secret. Modes of authentication ARE secret, kind of. A 5 minute conversation with a faux-Mason will easily tell me if he knows what he’s talking about. > > We are open to all religions - one need only to believe in a Supreme Architect/God-figure. We don’t allow women, but there are Masonic societies for women, such as the Order of the Eastern Star, Job’s Daughters, etc. > > We don’t control the world, but many of our members have been influential over the years. My thinking is that it’s because (again) “we make good men better.” That’s the exact kind of flowy, ambiguous answer I don’t want, but always seem to get. What I want to know is more of the nitty-gritty. ---
**Author:** ![Whiskey\_Dickens](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/9fc348/32.png) [@Whiskey\_Dickens](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whiskey_Dickens)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/27 "2015-11-24T16:30:53Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Ask the Freemason Part II > [Ask the Freemason Part II - Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=724029) Still disappointed that my question about whether the Masons learned about, y’know, actual stone working and geometry was ignored in that thread. I hoped there was still some vestigial kernel of the original trades organization. Some skill that was passed along. With so nebulous of a mission statement of “making men better, sometimes charity” I’m not surprised that membership has been declining since the mid 60’s along with the idea of a social clubs in general. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/28 "2015-11-24T17:06:01Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > … > > I’m quite happy with the idea of our Founding Fathers, Mozart, Haydn, and the rest sitting around swilling beers and shooting the breeze, but the Masons at one time were socially and intellectually (to a degree) rather a potent force, compared to the silly-hats motif currently being played with. > > > [@The\_dread\_simoom](#): > > > > Ouch. :smack: I’m not quite sure of the meaning of this response, but I think it indicates that my statement was sharp, and it was worthy of a :smack: from me. (There should be an Internet rule that if something has the slightest chance of being read as snark, it will.) I disagree (if **The dread** meant that), but even if he didn’t, he does point out where I should have been clearer. I wasn’t limiting Masons’ “intellectual force” in the context of this thread, but relative to that expended in other social settings by the people mentioned in my cite, and, as well, I believe, for lesser-known personages, ie, 99.99% of all of us. A lot of the best and brightest have been and are members of Masonic lodges which by design is not the setting nor sets the bar for scientific, political, economic, or musical talent to be seen, as I wrote, as “a force” with the Freemason imprimatur. The Wiki on Mozart and the Masons ([Mozart and Freemasonry - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozart_and_Freemasonry)) seems to offer a good picture of how a particular Masonic lodge saw itself. A lodge which, it may be noted, had as its member the noted Catholics Mozart and Haydn. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/29 "2015-11-24T17:58:02Z")
**Leo** : You seem to know a bit about the Masons. What are the various levels of Masonic expertise called? e.g. in karate they have “belts” ranging from “green belt” up through “black belt”. What do Masons call their corresponding concept? Perhaps then you’ll understand **The dread simoom** ’s wry reaction to your turn of phrase. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/30 "2015-11-24T19:09:38Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > We don’t care about religion[…] > > We are open to all religions - one need only to believe in a Supreme Architect/God-figure. These statements are in contradiction with one another. You must be aware that many religions lack any concept that maps neatly with “a Supreme Architect/God-figure.” The fact that you claim not to care about religion and to be open to all religions while insisting on a particular, narrow form of belief betrays a vile, naive chauvinism, which is not excused by the existence of the occasional Buddhist or Pagan willing to recast their beliefs in your terms for the sake of conformity. And as someone who likes social gatherings, group activities, hokey wisdom and shopworn rituals, but who happens to be an atheist, I find the implication that I am either incapable of being a good man or of being made better to be personally offensive. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/31 "2015-11-24T19:40:04Z")
Agreed. But we are dealing with an organization whose formative tenets were laid down during the Dark Ages. So I cut them some slack for not yet having thrown off all their primitiveness. Which is not to say that I’d want to be a member. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/32 "2015-11-24T19:49:40Z")
> [@GiantRat](#): > > We don’t control the world, but many of our members have been influential over the years. My thinking is that it’s because (again) “we make good men better.” There was certainly an epic fail in the case of my brother-in-law. He’s a lifelong Mason, started out as an asshole, and has, in the course of his life (now in his late 70s), become a colossal asshole. Wife abuser: check. Child abuser: check. Racist fuckwad: double check. I’m sure this is outside the norm, as I know that they do some good things, but cripes, what a prick he is. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/33 "2015-11-24T20:06:29Z")
> [@bubba001](#): > > In the US, alcohol is not allowed, at present. You must be from the UK? In the US, Shriners are allowed to drink at their functions. I do know they support some fine hospitals for children. (My grandmother was a member of Eastern Star–my grandfather had been a Mason. I doubt she was into anything very occult.) ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/34 "2015-11-24T21:48:09Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > **Leo** : You seem to know a bit about the Masons. What are the various levels of Masonic expertise called? … I know a fair amount about Mozart. 🙂 Otherwise, nothing, except they use a caliper on a big monument on the road from DC to VA. [/quote] > [@](#): > > e.g. in karate they have “belts” ranging from “green belt” up through “black belt”. What do Masons call their corresponding concept? Search me. > [@](#): > > Perhaps then you’ll understand **The dread simoom** ’s wry reaction to your turn of phrase. I still don’t any more, based on your meta level look at our little statement/answer/reply, where I just thought I might have been read as making a crack in general at Masons, which I wasn’t. However, **Chefguy** ’s BIL excepted, for one. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/35 "2015-11-24T22:07:22Z")
Aaah, sorry. It sounded like to me you knew at least a bit or had researched them. Masons call their various ranks “degrees”. e.g. “Bob’s a 4th degree Mason.” So **The dread simoom** was making a pun (or asserting you’d made a pun) with your “… the Masons at one time were socially and intellectually (to a degree) rather a potent …” Like most jokes, all the punch falls out when it has to be explained. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/36 "2015-11-24T23:07:26Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Aaah, sorry. It sounded like to me you knew at least a bit or had researched them. > > Masons call their various ranks “degrees”. e.g. “Bob’s a 4th degree Mason.” > > So **The dread simoom** was making a pun (or asserting you’d made a pun) with your “… the Masons at one time were socially and intellectually (to a degree) rather a potent …” > > Like most jokes, all the punch falls out when it has to be explained. To expand on this a bit, the Lodge has only three degrees: Entered Apprentice (1st Degree); Fellowcraft (2nd); and Master Mason (3rd). Additional degrees do exist but as a function of “appendant” organizations, such as the York Rite and The Scottish Rite. In the basic Masonic Lodge, however, there are but three degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268/37 "2015-11-24T23:24:28Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Aaah, sorry. It sounded like to me you knew at least a bit or had researched them. > > Masons call their various ranks “degrees”. e.g. “Bob’s a 4th degree Mason.” > > So **The dread simoom** was making a pun (or asserting you’d made a pun) with your “… the Masons at one time were socially and intellectually (to a degree) rather a potent …” > > Like most jokes, all the punch falls out when it has to be explained. I most definitely did NOT see what I did there… 🙂 It was/is a good one, however. ETA: I now see **LSLGuy** was trying to hint for me to get the joke ( e.g. in karate they have “belts” ranging from “green belt” up through “black belt”. What do Masons call their corresponding concept?"). Didn’t get that either. Horse, water, drink. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-freemasons-do-exactly/738268.md?page=1)