# What do Germans call Germany? Germany vs Deutschland **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 8, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659 "2011-02-08T16:21:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/81 "2011-02-11T18:24:57Z")
> [@Rusalka](#): > > That is absolutely the most horrible video I’ve ever seen or heard. It’s not even horrible in a truly evil way, it’s horrible in its mediocrity. What an embarassment for the birthplace of Beethoven. You do realize that this is a home-made parody of both [Lena](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lena_Meyer-Landrut) and her Eurovision song “Satellite”, and the World Cup 2006 (the [Sommermärchen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschland._Ein_Sommerm%C3%A4rchen)) hence 2006, and the World Cup in South Africa 2010(hence the name wuwe lena - a reference to the Vuvuzeela and Lena). ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/82 "2011-02-11T18:53:30Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > You do realize that this is a home-made parody of both [Lena](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lena_Meyer-Landrut) and her Eurovision song “Satellite”, and the World Cup 2006 (the [Sommermärchen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschland._Ein_Sommerm%C3%A4rchen)) hence 2006, and the World Cup in South Africa 2010(hence the name wuwe lena - a reference to the Vuvuzeela and Lena). Then again, Germany is also responsible for videos [like this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQAKRw6mToA&feature=related) in absolute earnest, so you never know. Truly, the Eurovision contest has unleashed more evil upon the world than Chthulu, Satan and Hannah Montana combined. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/83 "2011-02-11T20:15:44Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > And “Germany” is the English word for Deutschland. > > I’m not sure why there should be the expectation that the name of a country in English (or another language) should match the name that the inhabitants of that country use for it. After all, our names for other things differ in our respective languages. The expectation’s not entirely unreasonable, given that the local names of many if not most countries on the Continent do sound at least vaguely like their English exonyms. For instance, there’s: [ul] [li]Spain - España [/li][li]Italy - Italia[/li][li]France - (La) France[/li][li]Belgium - Belgique/Belgien[/li][li]Switzerland - Suisse/Svizzera/Schweiz[/li][li]And so on[/li][/ul] As for the case of Germany in particular, the word _deutsch-_ ultimately traces back to one meaning “of the people”, at least according to Wikipedia[sup]1[/sup]. I have to wonder if this is related to the word _deutlich_, meaning “clearly”, as in speaking or writing. If so, it would seem that the Germans’ name for themselves, _die Deutschen_, originally meant “the people who can speak clearly, like us”. Given that the Germans’ ancestors, in the early Middle Ages, comprised a number of distinct tribes, each with its own homeland, traditions, and rulers, but most of whose dialects were more or less mutually intelligible, it’s not entirely surprising that there are so many names for the country today. The French name _Allemagne_, for example, comes from the name of one of the tribes, the Alemans. Within Germany, the names of some of the _Länder_ themselves recall the names of the tribes that ruled or lived there, like Hesse, Franconia, and Bavaria to name a few examples. [sup]1[/sup]From the German language Wikipedia, [here](http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutschland). > [@](#): > > „Deutsch“ bedeutete ursprünglich „zum Volk gehörig“ und meinte zunächst die Sprache. > > (“Deutsch” originally meant “belonging to the people” and referred originally to the language.) ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/84 "2011-02-11T20:20:33Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Truly, the Eurovision contest has unleashed more evil upon the world than Chthulu, Satan and Hannah Montana combined. I’m with you on both Satan and Chthulu, but I’m not that sure about Hannah Montana. If the Eurovision wins that contest, it’s only on the basis of the quantity, not the quality of evil. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/85 "2011-02-11T20:26:05Z")
> [@Rusalka](#): > > :eek: > > Oh. My. > > I am speechless. > > That is absolutely the most horrible video I’ve ever seen or heard. It’s not even horrible in a truly evil way, it’s horrible in its mediocrity. What an embarassment for the birthplace of Beethoven. I don’t want to hijack, so please don’t get me started on horrible and bizarre German music videos. I could show you examples you’d wish you had never seen them afterwards. I’m German, of course. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/86 "2011-02-11T20:37:27Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > I don’t want to hijack, so please don’t get me started on horrible and bizarre German music videos. But you _could_ start a thread on the subject. Just sayin’ 🆒 Yes, I feel particularly masochistic today. Why are you asking? ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/87 "2011-02-11T21:17:00Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > But you _could_ start a thread on the subject. Just sayin’ 🆒 > Yes, I feel particularly masochistic today. Why are you asking? You may be in a masochistic mood, but trust me, you’d really don’t want to see this … horror. And this is my last word on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/88 "2011-02-11T21:34:03Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > How do you know someone is visiting Euskadi or the northern part of Navarra on business for the first time? > A: When someone asks where did they park their car, they answer “oh, over there in Kalea!” > > (Kalea = Basque for ‘street’; Etorbidea = ‘avenue’). Double labeling of streets, the two languages are different enough that equivalent words aren’t readily recognizable as pairs, and the Spanish “street [streetname]” structure meets the Basque “[streetname] street” to produce “Calle [Streetname] Kalea” signs. People from the rest of Spain look at the last word in the sign thinking it’s the streetname, but in this case it’s not. > > There’s double labeling in the other bilingual areas as well, but it’s nowhere near as confusing due to the languages being more similar. Some parts of Canada are the same. Our local street signs are simlarly [bilingual](http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/467263/467263,1254173395,2/stock-photo-ottawa-kent-street-sign-37887484.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/89 "2011-02-11T21:59:38Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > You may be in a masochistic mood, but trust me, you’d really don’t want to see this … horror. And this is my last word on the subject. O.K., changed my mind, **2square4u**. Off to [Cafe Society](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13457579#post13457579). ---
**Author:** ![Floater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dc4da7/32.png) [@Floater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Floater)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/90 "2011-02-14T08:09:14Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > The expectation’s not entirely unreasonable, given that the local names of many if not most countries on the Continent do sound at least vaguely like their English exonyms. For instance, there’s: > > [ul] > [li]Spain - España [/li][li]Italy - Italia[/li][li]France - (La) France[/li][li]Belgium - Belgique/Belgien[/li][li]Switzerland - Suisse/Svizzera/Schweiz[/li][li]And so on[/li][/ul] It’s actually the other way round. The English names vaguely resemble the names in the languages used in the various countries. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/91 "2011-02-14T08:15:35Z")
Just as a data point, “Germania” was the area along the Rhine which was under Roman control (at least part of the time) during the Empire. While the Allemani, one of the tribes in Germania, provided the French name, the old Latin name provided the English one, and the Teutonic immigrants during the Volkerwanderung provided the native German name, which we borrowed to identify the Plattdeutsch-speaking inhabitants of the Lowlands, i.e., the Dutch. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/92 "2011-02-14T08:24:00Z")
Out of curiosity, does “Deutsch” or “Deutschland” signify German-speaking areas beyond the borders of reunified Germany to its inhabitants, in the same sense that “America” when not used in a political sense would to me include not just the 50 states but also Canada and at least part of Mexico (Baja, Chihuahua, and Sonora, at least)? I’m thinking Germanophone Switzerland, the Netherlands, Flanders, Austria, and whatever else may still be at least partly German-speaking. This isn’t asking a loaded Anschluss-type political question, but rather whether there’s a significance of “they’re part of us culturally” for non-Germany German-speaking areas. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/93 "2011-02-14T09:02:47Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Out of curiosity, does “Deutsch” or “Deutschland” signify German-speaking areas beyond the borders of reunified Germany to its inhabitants, in the same sense that “America” when not used in a political sense would to me include not just the 50 states but also Canada and at least part of Mexico (Baja, Chihuahua, and Sonora, at least)? I’m thinking Germanophone Switzerland, the Netherlands, Flanders, Austria, and whatever else may still be at least partly German-speaking. This isn’t asking a loaded Anschluss-type political question, but rather whether there’s a significance of “they’re part of us culturally” for non-Germany German-speaking areas. These are referred to as _deutschsprachig_ (German-speaking) but not _deutsch_ (German). For example, ‘the German-speaking countries’ or ‘the German-speaking part of Belgium’, but never ‘the German part of Belgium’. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/94 "2011-02-14T09:04:07Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Out of curiosity, does “Deutsch” or “Deutschland” signify German-speaking areas beyond the borders of reunified Germany to its inhabitants, in the same sense that “America” when not used in a political sense would to me include not just the 50 states but also Canada and at least part of Mexico (Baja, Chihuahua, and Sonora, at least)? Um, “America” can be used to refer to Canada, US and Mexico because it’s the name of the continent; Germany has never been the name for a continent. > [@](#): > > I’m thinking Germanophone Switzerland, the Netherlands, Flanders, Austria, and whatever else may still be at least partly German-speaking. This isn’t asking a loaded Anschluss-type political question, but rather whether there’s a significance of “they’re part of us culturally” for non-Germany German-speaking areas. There is the adjective “deutschsprachig” - german-speaking, similar to Anglophone/ english-speaking; and like the latter, which includes US, Canada, GB, and the Aussies, it’s different cultures seperated by a common language. Most often I hear deutschsprachig used when talking about the cost of translation of books and movies - Germany has 80 mil. people, but the german-speaking area is 100 mil. people. Even then, kid movies like “Babe” are dubbed into Standard German and seperate with Austrian speakers. And there have been several articles recently about the pitfalls of Germans who go to work in Switzerland thinking that because the Swiss understand and speak (mangled) German, they have the same culture as the German, which they don’t, so the Germans encounter hostility for making gaffes and don’t understand why. The other term used often is [D-A-CH](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language_in_Europe)after the car country codes for Germany (Deutschland), Austria (which is called Österreich by the natives) and Swiss (Confederita Helvetia). Because they have common borders, transit routes with tunnels and bridges and tourists coming for the nature, they have common problems, and it makes good sense to work together to make traffic flow easier without destroying nature, and to coordinate efforts protecting the delicate Alpine nature. (Dach literally means roof). ---
**Author:** ![Norse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a9adbd/32.png) [@Norse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Norse)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/95 "2011-02-14T10:10:53Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Out of curiosity, does “Deutsch” or “Deutschland” signify German-speaking areas beyond the borders of reunified Germany to its inhabitants, in the same sense that “America” when not used in a political sense would to me include not just the 50 states but also Canada and at least part of Mexico (Baja, Chihuahua, and Sonora, at least)? I’m thinking Germanophone Switzerland, the Netherlands, Flanders, Austria, and whatever else may still be at least partly German-speaking. This isn’t asking a loaded Anschluss-type political question, but rather whether there’s a significance of “they’re part of us culturally” for non-Germany German-speaking areas. That would prob’ly make for some slightly unpleasant historical perspectives. Thus: Not A Very Good Idea™ and, **EinsteinsHund** : Thanks. I guess. :shudder: ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/96 "2011-02-14T10:26:23Z")
> [@Norse](#): > > That would prob’ly make for some slightly unpleasant historical perspectives. Thus: Not A Very Good Idea™ I think you nailed it. Because of our loaded history, every expression which resembles some form of Großdeutschland, thus suggesting expanded borders for the Federal Republic of Germany, is a big no-no. > [@](#): > > and, **EinsteinsHund** : Thanks. I guess. :shudder: You’re welcome. (And don’t complain, I warned you :p) ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/97 "2011-02-14T10:44:21Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > You do realize that this is a home-made parody of both [Lena](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lena_Meyer-Landrut) and her Eurovision song “Satellite”). After watching the video of Lena’s winning song, I can see that the Eurovision contest is still as mediocre as ever and I can keep ignoring it. ---
**Author:** ![dhkendall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@dhkendall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dhkendall)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/98 "2011-02-14T20:36:09Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > There’s a problem with trying to use the same name as the locals do: when I hear someone from Sri Lanka say Sri Lanka, it sounds to me like “sai lón” or “sai lán” I’ve always wondered why Sri Lanka was called Ceylon, and why the new name was so much different (at least to me). This clears up a lot, thanks **Nava** for fighting ignorance! > [@AshenLady](#): > > 1. Hebrew > 2. Greek > 3. Latin > 4. English > > [http://www.plim.org/1translit\_Yah.gif](http://www.plim.org/1translit_Yah.gif) So then why was “Jesus” translated via Greek and Latin, but “Joshua” (another perfectly cromulent Biblical name from the OT) skipping the two middlemen? (BTW, I’ve heard that the iterant rabbi from Nazareth would have been referred at the time as “Yeshua bin Joseph ha Dovidl” (Joshua son of Joseph of the house of David), any truth to that? (I suppose to translate _that_ name to contemporary American culture, he’d be called Joshua David Josephson.) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/99 "2011-02-14T20:42:16Z")
Is the original Hebrew form “Yehoshua”? And what would it have been in Aramaic? ---
**Author:** ![Rusalka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecd19e/32.png) [@Rusalka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rusalka)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659/100 "2011-02-17T21:45:47Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > Out of curiosity, does “Deutsch” or “Deutschland” signify German-speaking areas beyond the borders of reunified Germany to its inhabitants, in the same sense that “America” when not used in a political sense would to me include not just the 50 states but also Canada and at least part of Mexico (Baja, Chihuahua, and Sonora, at least)? I’m thinking Germanophone Switzerland, the Netherlands, Flanders, Austria, and whatever else may still be at least partly German-speaking. This isn’t asking a loaded Anschluss-type political question, but rather whether there’s a significance of “they’re part of us culturally” for non-Germany German-speaking areas. That is a complicated question. My answer however, skirting all the cringing pc-ness of people who grew up in the German education system after WWII, would be: it depends upon whom you are talking to. The idea of political nationality is a recent one. The term “Deutsch” historically referred to people of German origin who spoke German. Those who moved beyond German-speaking states before 1871 continued to identify themselves in that way up to the present. From my personal experience, yes, people who are Austrian, for example, share many cultural traits with Germans, and many would agree that they are culturally German. Others would disagree, but I think this is more out of political rather than practical reasons. Language, after all, is the single most important factor in transmitting culture. When you are an expatriate, you associate with those speaking your language, who have a similar culture. In my city, culture based social organizations, often included a mixture of Austrians and Germans. They would frequently use the same facilities and sing in the same choruses, and socialize with each other. The Austrian chorus my mother belonged to would sing German choral works, as well as Austrian ones. The president of the organization for a while, was actually Luxembourgian. My mother is Austrian, but she identifies as both German and Austrian, because she was a refugee from a German-speaking area in Serbia. The same can be said of other German-speakers who were ethnically cleansed from non-German states after the war. My mother’s ancestors originally came from an area in Alsace-Lorraine. Proof of this is in the dialect my mother’s family spoke. It was very similar to dialects in that region, in addition, it was sprinkled with real French words. My mother’s very odd maiden name is the name of a district in Luxembourg. Despite emigrating to the Balkans, which were a part of Austria-Hungary, these Germans kept their identity as “Deutsch”. That’s because “Austrian” was not an ethnic identity and “Deutsch” was. My mother is actually an Austrian citizen, because that’s where she grew up after becoming a refugee. There’s poetic justice in that since her family lived in Austria-Hungary for over a century. She married a German. I never really heard discussions about German vs. Austrian culture, because they really are very similar. The differences are regional: dialect, cuisine, etc, rather than national. The Austrians make fun of Germans because they have a national inferiority complex, much like Canadians have one in relation to Americans. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-germans-call-germany-germany-vs-deutschland/570659.md?page=6)