# What do homeowners do in a situation like this? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 12, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763 "2013-06-12T00:04:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/21 "2013-06-12T03:57:44Z")
If you have a HOA or muni government with sufficient nanny-state rules, there is a good chance you can get those signs bamminated. (ETA: Or, you could get our very own SDMB mods to do it! 🙂 ) If you don’t have a HOA or muni government with sufficient nanny-state rules, there is a good chance you can paint your own house like the [Westboro Rainbow House](http://www.salon.com/2013/03/20/westboro_baptist_loves_the_sodomite_rainbow_house/) (scroll down a little bit to see photo) and get away with it. Either way, you win. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/22 "2013-06-12T03:59:52Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Yea, I don’t get the hate for HOAs. They are there for a reason. > > Sure, they can be annoying when they send you a nastygram telling you to trim the trees. But 95% of the time, they’re right - the trees do need to be trimmed because they’re blocking the sidewalk. > > I can’t find the article now, but there was an article about two neighborhoods, one on each side of the street, and by some quirk, once side of the street had an HOA and the other didn’t. The side with the HOA all had good property values, homes in good repair, mowed lawns, etc. The side without had more broken windows than not, no lawns had been mowed in years, and property values were in the pits. That hit home for me the value of an HOA. > > As said above, you knew what you were getting into when you bought the house. The HOA is not some mystic deity with edicts from on high - it’s your neighbors. If you don’t like the rules, run for the board or try to get them changed. > > Sure, _some_ HOAs have little lawn care nazis - but those people can be voted out and are a minority of HOAs out there. > > One of my good friends is president of his HOA. Seriously, he finds it more of a hassle than anything else but nobody else is willing to do it, and someone has to pay the electric bill for the streetlights. If you think a house is just something to buy and sell, then get one with a HOA. If you think a house is a home, your own, a place where you can go dig a hole in your yard and no one can stop you, then you don’t give a crap what the stuck up snobs in HOAs do. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/23 "2013-06-12T04:11:57Z")
Like others have said, the answer is hedges. Privacy fences. Large evergreen trees. Whatever it takes to keep your view blocked from the stuff you don’t want to see. Also you say a little thanks to the crazy person’s God that you don’t have to share walls with them (unlike if you were a renter) and have the freedom to erect privacy fences and hedges (unlike if you were a renter). ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/24 "2013-06-12T04:27:41Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > > [@CookingWithGas](#): > > > > As to free speech, suppose instead of a Christian message, the signs said, “Bring jihad to the shores of the U.S.!” Or “Satan is calling me to take vengeance on you!” Let’s see how long people would wrap themselves in the First Amendment then. > > I don’t know about anyone else, but those messages offend me no more and no less than the Jesus ones. Well… I’d have a problem with _those_ messages, because they appear to be calling for violence. So that’s not on. But I’d have no problem with “The Koran - God’s message for the world” or “Maitreya is here”, or prayer flags, or any other symbols of a religion I don’t believe in. I’d grind my teeth over anything I thought was really harmful - “MMR causes autism!” would probably send my blood pressure through the roof, but I still support someone’s right to stick a sign up about it in their yard. If they must. Her house, she can do what she likes with the front yard as far as I care. I have to see plenty of images I dislike on advertising billboards all over the city every day. The fact that it’s a private house doesn’t make it any worse. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/25 "2013-06-12T04:56:01Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I fail to see why I would care. It’s my home. I don’t give a crap about property values… Do you actually own a house? Or is this just hot air? ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/26 "2013-06-12T05:02:03Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > What do homeowners do in situations like this? Plenty of people have already mentioned fences and hedges. I’ll add to that “hope Mr/Ms Crazyneighbor either moves or dies before I must sell my own house.” There’s not much else you CAN do about a problem neighbor, unless they actually reach the point of breaking the law - and even then, legal action may only make things worse. I am SO glad I have great neighbors! ---
**Author:** ![DataX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@DataX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DataX)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/27 "2013-06-12T05:11:31Z")
I was on the board of our HOA - and while there was a vocal minority that wanted to do weird things with their property - none of the rules were draconian - and stories about HOAs out of control are in the news cause they are weird. The HOA is made up of people that live there. I don’t get the hate. While some people want to be able to do whatever they want - MOST people want reasonable restrictions. Why people feel their front yard is the last bastion of freedom is beyond me. You really are ok if your neighbors put up a 20 foot concrete fence around their property? Play loud music at all hours of the night? Some of that is governed by local law, but not all of it. I don’t want crap to bring down my property values - and my neighbors agreed when they moved in. If they want “freedom” they can move somewhere without an HOA. It will be cheaper. Most people won’t want to live there - and I doubt most builders will build there. It’s the perfect free market option. People are attracted to certain areas BECAUSE they have HOAs - and they don’t even realize it. No one should be held hostage to a crazy person. They will drive down your property values. Builders could easily build communities without HOAs - they don’t (in general that I know of). It is pretty obvious why. My state has statutory exceptions for political signs (wonder how that made it into law) - but only a certain (short) time around the election. We as a community had an exception for a small for sale sign. To my knowledge - no one ever complained or tried to put up a different type of sign. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/28 "2013-06-12T05:52:32Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > What do homeowners do in situations like this? Steal the signs ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/29 "2013-06-12T11:10:13Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > Like others have said, the answer is hedges. Privacy fences. Large evergreen trees. Whatever it takes to keep your view blocked from the stuff you don’t want to see. > > Also you say a little thanks to the crazy person’s God that you don’t have to share walls with them (unlike if you were a renter) and have the freedom to erect privacy fences and hedges (unlike if you were a renter). Here I am thinking the renter has the advantage. Because you can just pick up and leave if the signs weird you out too much. And not worry about losing your investment. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/30 "2013-06-12T14:39:03Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > If you think a house is just something to buy and sell, then get one with a HOA. If you think a house is a home, your own, a place where you can go dig a hole in your yard and no one can stop you, then you don’t give a crap what the stuck up snobs in HOAs do. I don’t think a house is just a buy/sell thing, but I do want an HOA, because I want to have a home that isn’t hidden behind my neighbor’s 7 cars on blocks in the front lawn or the jungle on the other side because they haven’t mowed in a while or the chicken hutch across the street someone decided to put in. The key here is reasonable restrictions, as **DataX** mentioned. If the HOA is being unreasonable, go to the damn meeting and vote the assholes out. If the HOA is being reasonable, it’s better for everyone. If you don’t like the idea that someone might ask you to mow your lawn, go live somewhere where neighbors are a mile away. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/31 "2013-06-12T15:00:53Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > The key here is reasonable restrictions, as **DataX** mentioned. If the HOA is being unreasonable, go to the damn meeting and vote the assholes out. If the HOA is being reasonable, it’s better for everyone. If you don’t like the idea that someone might ask you to mow your lawn, go live somewhere where neighbors are a mile away. Sorry, but I’m not moving. It’s my home and my property. If the neighbors don’t like the way I keep my property they can move. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/32 "2013-06-12T15:12:41Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Sorry, but I’m not moving. It’s my home and my property. If the neighbors don’t like the way I keep my property they can move. Or they can point to the contractual agreement you signed when you bought the house, and put a lien on it. Or do you not think contracts should apply because “hey man, it’s my home and free speech and stuff”. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/33 "2013-06-12T15:19:36Z")
Several years ago two of my neighbors went to war with each other over a similiar sign problem. One was a fundamentalist Christian who had lots Repent and Abortion is Murder signs and religious display. The other didn’t like the signs and responded with various signs promoting hedonistic behavior. My favorite was the “Saturnalia is the reason for the season” complete with as revealing as possible without breaking local obscenity laws orgy pictures. This was inresponse to a giant “Jesus is the reason for the season” banner. Eventually the Christian started to scale back just to get neighbors “distusting and perverse” displays to disappear. This approach may not work for everyone, but in this case it worked and it was fun to watch. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/34 "2013-06-12T15:35:20Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > Or they can point to the contractual agreement you signed when you bought the house, and put a lien on it. Or do you not think contracts should apply because “hey man, it’s my home and free speech and stuff”. There was no contractual agreement when I bought my house. I wouldn’t buy one in a HOA. I have to abide by the laws, the real ones, and that’s it. You want someone else to tell you what to do with your property, or get some thrill out of telling others what to do with theirs, then go ahead and join an HOA. ---
**Author:** ![Hippy\_Hollow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hippy_hollow/32/4841_2.png) [@Hippy\_Hollow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hippy_Hollow)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/35 "2013-06-12T15:48:52Z")
I have conflicting feelings about the HOA. I’ve been fined (appealed and dismissed) and received nasty letters about the edging of my yard. (Now it wasn’t egregious, but I would have appreciated a welcome to the neighborhood missive instead of the first salvo they sent.) In Texas, the HOAs are known for being rather draconian and overreaching. All things considered, though, mine is fairly tame. (They do need to crack down on garbage cans being in the street two days after pickup, though.) They had a neighborhood cookout the other day, the first I recall us ever having in seven years, so there’s that. The home that **monstro** describes… it seems a little off, but frankly, if I don’t see it on a daily basis, and it’s not overwhelmingly aesthetically insulting, I probably wouldn’t care. I don’t necessarily subscribe to those points of view but OOS, OOM. If I was the immediate neighbor it might bother me, though. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/36 "2013-06-12T15:56:36Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Well… I’d have a problem with _those_ messages, because they appear to be calling for violence. It’s still protected speech under the First Amendment. In many discussions about HOAs, including this thread, people mention property values. But that’s just a symptom. Do you know why property values go down based on something going on in a nearby property? Because it makes it an unpleasant place to live. It’s not about greed and how much you can sell your property for. It’s about wanting an enjoyable environment to live in. HOAs are there to keep one neighbor from making things unpleasant for everybody else. It’s joining a club. If you don’t like the rules, don’t join. If you join, follow the rules. > [@Acsenray](#): > > A homeowners’ association really is nothing less than a local government—just dressed up in the form of contractual relationships—and it should be subject to the same restrictions as any other form of government, including the First Amendment. Many local governments have [restrictions on signage](http://www.ci.birmingham.mi.us/clientFTP/documents/planning/signordinance.pdf) for businesses and residences, and this is not considered a violation of First Amendment freedoms. [Here is a case in Virginia](http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-02-09/local/37008721_1_hoas-covenants-neighborhood) where an overzealous board, trying to enforce a rule about the \*size \*of signs, was sued by the homeowner. The board was not accused of suppressing free speech; there was no mention of free speech as an issue at all, even though the sign was of a political nature. (The Board lost, but because of a legal issue in how they were levying fines, not anything to do with free speech.) By the way, many public schools, which are under the governance of local governments, [prohibit certain speech on clothing](http://www.firstamendmentschools.org/freedoms/case.aspx?id=1685), so even local governments do not have to allow any and all forms of speech in all situations. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/37 "2013-06-12T16:04:36Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > The houses in this area are very expensive, too. The neighborhood attracts professional people who want the cache of a hip, urban environment. Not crazy Christians with a thing for wooden signs. > > What do homeowners do in situations like this? So neighborhood gentrification and the old owners no longer fit in? That’s like the city people who buy two acres in the country and then complain because their little snowflakes’ eyes are soiled by the sight of goats mating in the fields and that horses are being blinded when they’re wearing fly masks. Live with it. StG ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/38 "2013-06-12T16:04:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > If you think a house is just something to buy and sell, then get one with a HOA. If you think a house is a home, your own, a place where you can go dig a hole in your yard and no one can stop you, then you don’t give a crap what the stuck up snobs in HOAs do. If it’s stuck-up or snobby to not want rusty cars on blocks in the yard next door, then call me a snob. I’m good with that. I’m not sure what the source of your hostility towards HOAs is when you don’t have to deal with one. I’m certainly not upset that there are neighborhoods I don’t live in that don’t have 'em, and I’m confused as to why it should bother you that there are neighborhoods that you don’t live in that do have them. And like various posters in this thread have mentioned, nobody’s forced to belong to a HOA. If you don’t want to be in a neighborhood with one, you just don’t buy a house in a neighborhood with one. It’s not like they keep its existence, or its rules, hidden from you when you’re buying a house. You’ve got to sign off on them. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/39 "2013-06-12T16:18:32Z")
We don’t have an HOA but we live in a condominium townhome community. I think it’s fantastic. There are a crapton of rules but they are all reasonable. If you want an exception to the rules, you just ask the board and 90% of the time, you are granted it. ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/40 "2013-06-12T16:31:34Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > So neighborhood gentrification and the old owners no longer fit in? Why are you assuming the sign nutcase was there first? I’ve seen plenty of these situation where it’s the other way around. Crazy and/or rude behavior isn’t restricted to one socioeconomic class. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763.md?page=3)