# What do homeowners do in a situation like this? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 12, 2013, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763 "2013-06-12T00:04:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/61 "2013-06-12T20:01:49Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > I don’t think a house is just a buy/sell thing, but I do want an HOA, because I want to have a home that isn’t hidden behind my neighbor’s 7 cars on blocks in the front lawn or the jungle on the other side because they haven’t mowed in a while or the chicken hutch across the street someone decided to put in. > > The key here is reasonable restrictions, as **DataX** mentioned. If the HOA is being unreasonable, go to the damn meeting and vote the assholes out. If the HOA is being reasonable, it’s better for everyone. If you don’t like the idea that someone might ask you to mow your lawn, go live somewhere where neighbors are a mile away. See, I think the pro-HOA side is arguing the excluded middle. For those that like them, they’re saying they don’t have to be draconian or the restrictions anything but reasonable. However, the flip side is that there are a LOT of communities without HOA guidance who also mow their lawns, eschew cars up on blocks, broken windows or toilet planters, nor paint their homes garish colors while partying to loud rap music at 4:00 AM during the week with their cell mates from jail. So, you can both dislike HOA _and_ support them for valid reasons without strawmanning the other side’s viewpoint. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/62 "2013-06-12T20:04:08Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > Which matters not a whit if the person next door or across the street from you does not. And make no mistake: the sort of person the OP (and more significantly **Munch** ) is talking about does NOT respect others. That’s why they behave as they do. I know, but does the fact that they are jerks or that you have property values to worry about give you license to do anything about it if they’re not breaking the law? All I’m saying is that at that point I would try to ignore it and move on with my life, but apparently that means I couldn’t possibly own a home or anything of value. ---
**Author:** ![babygoat666](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2acd7d/32.png) [@babygoat666](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/babygoat666)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/63 "2013-06-12T20:05:24Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Not towards freedom of expression. Homeowners associations, yes; but not freedom of expression. > > Now see what you’ve done? You made me defend **BigT**. My apologies!! ---
**Author:** ![control-z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eada6e/32.png) [@control-z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/control-z)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/64 "2013-06-12T20:12:54Z")
I solve the problem by not having close neighbors. I’ve concluded that if you don’t own the land then you have no basis to complain about it. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/65 "2013-06-12T20:23:54Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > This exchange seems pretty disdainful to me: > [BigT’s post] You need to read that post again, because it’s just as bad of strawman as your post, and shares the same opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/66 "2013-06-12T20:26:12Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > I know, but does the fact that they are jerks or that you have property values to worry about give you license to do anything about it if they’re not breaking the law? Again, no one is suggesting that you can “do anything about it”, aside from implementing an HOA (which I’m unaware of any example ever occuring after a community/neighborhood has already been developed). ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/67 "2013-06-12T20:29:16Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > I know, but does the fact that they are jerks or that you have property values to worry about give you license to do anything about it if they’re not breaking the law? It gives you license to work on changing those laws. Many municipalities do have laws which impose restrictions similar to the ones those much-hated HOAs have, and those laws didn’t get on the books by spontaneous generation. Surprisingly, behavior which is jerkish enough can often be made illegal. > [@](#): > > All I’m saying is that at that point I would try to ignore it and move on with my life, but apparently that means I couldn’t possibly own a home or anything of value. Because many of the anti-HOA posters WERE talking in ways which make it sound as though they have nothing personal at stake. I’m not impressed by brave talk about defending “freedoms” when the people doing the talking have nothing personal at stake to lose when that freedom is abused. And of course most home owners are concerned about property values - a house is the most valuable thing the average American owns. Being concerned about its value is no sillier than being concerned about the value of your savings account. ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/68 "2013-06-12T20:29:58Z")
> [@Tequila\_Party](#): > > See, I think the pro-HOA side is arguing the excluded middle. For those that like them, they’re saying they don’t have to be draconian or the restrictions anything but reasonable. However, the flip side is that there are a LOT of communities without HOA guidance who also mow their lawns, eschew cars up on blocks, broken windows or toilet planters, nor paint their homes garish colors while partying to loud rap music at 4:00 AM during the week with their cell mates from jail. So, you can both dislike HOA _and_ support them for valid reasons without strawmanning the other side’s viewpoint. My apologies, I don’t mean to imply that all communities without HOAs are crapsacks; but some of them are and I would rather have the HOA to prevent that. Likewise, I understand that not all HOAs are reasonable, but most are and I wish the anti-HOA side would see that. If you are willing to take the risk that your neighbors will be dicks in return for nobody telling you that your lawn needs mowing, fine. I would prefer the preventative medicine of the HOA despite their sometimes annoyances. I don’t see why this issue has to cause such a big argument. If you don’t want an HOA, don’t live where there is one. If you want an HOA, live where there is one. Where’s the big argument? ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/69 "2013-06-12T20:31:00Z")
> [@control-z](#): > > I solve the problem by not having close neighbors. I’ve concluded that if you don’t own the land then you have no basis to complain about it. That solution works for some people, but if everyone goes that route, say goodbye to cities. We can’t all live in rural areas, it’s just not practical. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/70 "2013-06-12T20:33:09Z")
> [@babygoat666](#): > > Not every homeowner thinks their property value is more important than other people’s freedom of expression. Thankfully most do. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/71 "2013-06-12T21:12:47Z")
> [@Hippy\_Hollow](#): > > In Texas, the HOAs are known for being rather draconian and overreaching. That’s the thing; in theory, HOAs are a good idea, but in practice, the rulership of the HOAs tend to fall to the idle nosey-nellies and do-gooders in the HOA jurisdiction. And once that happens, you get ridiculous rules implemented after people moved in that restrict things like: [ul] [li]What sort of vehicles they can park in their driveways.[/li][li]Not only rules against goofy housepaint colors, but a specific approved list from approved vendors.[/li][li]Prohibitions on fences[/li][li]Prohibitions on edging, mowing, etc… that go beyond “Don’t let your yard turn into a jungle.” into “We’re going to cite you if you don’t mow it at least twice a week”[/li][li]Citations for not having your grass be kind of weedy and thin / dead spots.[/li][li]Prohibitions on certain types of lawn furniture in backyards[/li][li]Prohibitions on flagpoles in frontyards.[/li][li]Sign prohibitions[/li][li]Nosey intrusion into things like home improvements and additions beyond ensuring they’re up to code. Stuff like regulating that your shingles have to match your neighbors’ shingles.[/li][li] No sheds in your backyard.[/li][/ul] I think few homeowners would argue with HOA restrictions that prevent hillbilly jerks from parking in their yards, but who wants to voluntarily submit to some other a-hole’s idea of what looks good for their house? ---
**Author:** ![artemis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/91b2a8/32.png) [@artemis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/artemis)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/72 "2013-06-12T21:40:37Z")
> [@bump](#): > > That’s the thing; in theory, HOAs are a good idea, but in practice, the rulership of the HOAs tend to fall to the idle nosey-nellies and do-gooders in the HOA jurisdiction. Of course, that can be a real problem - but exactly the same thing is true of municipal governments. If sensible people are too busy to take part in governance, who’s left to run things but the dictator-wannabees? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/73 "2013-06-12T22:20:51Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > So wait, your problem isn’t an HOA, it’s that HOAs exist somewhere and you just want to rail against them? And you complain about other people telling you what to do. > [@RTFirefly](#): > > If it’s stuck-up or snobby to not want rusty cars on blocks in the yard next door, then call me a snob. I’m good with that. > > I’m not sure what the source of your hostility towards HOAs is when you don’t have to deal with one. I’m certainly not upset that there are neighborhoods I don’t live in that don’t have 'em, and I’m confused as to why it should bother you that there are neighborhoods that you don’t live in that do have them. > > And like various posters in this thread have mentioned, nobody’s forced to belong to a HOA. If you don’t want to be in a neighborhood with one, you just don’t buy a house in a neighborhood with one. It’s not like they keep its existence, or its rules, hidden from you when you’re buying a house. You’ve got to sign off on them. I don’t care about HOAs for anyone else. I just don’t want to be in one, and I should only justifiably rail against someone who tried to make me join one. I keep my property surrounded by trees and shrubs so no one has to see how I keep my lawn or all the cars I have. I don’t really understand the desire to be in one, but that’s also what freedom is about, choosing what’s right for you. If you’re happy with an HOA, then I’m happy to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/74 "2013-06-12T22:33:00Z")
> [@CookingWithGas](#): > > By the way, many public schools, which are under the governance of local governments, [prohibit certain speech on clothing](http://www.firstamendmentschools.org/freedoms/case.aspx?id=1685), so even local governments do not have to allow any and all forms of speech in all situations. Schools are not analogous; they stand _in loco parentis_, and can restrict all sorts of rights because of that. > [@Acsenray](#): > > A homeowners’ association really is nothing less than a local government—just dressed up in the form of contractual relationships—and it should be subject to the same restrictions as any other form of government, including the First Amendment. What essential government functions do HOAs serve that make them equivalent to local governments? ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/75 "2013-06-13T03:51:13Z")
We have someone in our neighborhood that has an ugly stick-in-the-ground sign that says “Pray for our nation.” I don’t like it, but so far I haven’t done anything about it. They have a huge tree that needs trimmed, causing a dirt yard, with this sign stuck in the middle of it. It’s SO attractive. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Tequila\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a6a055/32.png) [@Tequila\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tequila_Party)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/76 "2013-06-13T04:33:31Z")
> [@yellowjacketcoder](#): > > My apologies, I don’t mean to imply that all communities without HOAs are crapsacks; but some of them are and I would rather have the HOA to prevent that. > > Likewise, I understand that not all HOAs are reasonable, but most are and I wish the anti-HOA side would see that. > > If you are willing to take the risk that your neighbors will be dicks in return for nobody telling you that your lawn needs mowing, fine. I would prefer the preventative medicine of the HOA despite their sometimes annoyances. I don’t see why this issue has to cause such a big argument. > > If you don’t want an HOA, don’t live where there is one. > If you want an HOA, live where there is one. > > Where’s the big argument? We are definitely in agreement on that last part. I’m no fan of HOAs, but I act accordingly and have never bought a house in one. Not necessarily because I believe they’re all evil, but simply because I have no desire to run most of the things I do with my property past a board. I like simply doing my own thing, whenever I wish. By the same token, if a neighbor decides to have some political signs in their yard or takes a little too long to mend our shared fence, I’m OK with that too. It’s all dependent on what you want. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/77 "2013-06-13T06:03:13Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Fuck a homeowner’s association! :mad: I can’t even put up a fence over 4 feet high in my backyard due to my homeowner’s association’s rules. The backyard area is like one big, connected backyard shared by six or seven households. Privacy is non-existent. Why’d you buy it in the first place? > [@artemis](#): > > Of course, that can be a real problem - but exactly the same thing is true of municipal governments. If sensible people are too busy to take part in governance, who’s left to run things but the dictator-wannabees? Well for starters everyone (well all adult citizens) who live in a given area can take part in local governance; in HOAs give 1 vote per property owner (& often are often weighted to give control to the developer even after a majority of the units have been sold). ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/78 "2013-06-13T08:20:31Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I fail to see why I would care. Because it has an impact on the surrounding property values > [@BigT](#): > > It’s my home. I don’t give a crap about property values, but, even if I did, I don’t think I should have the right to tell someone what to do on their property. Valuing money so much that you think you ought to be able to stop someone’s free speech is rather assholish, in my opinion. Oh that’s the assholish part of it is it? Not the fucker that is dicking up the value of the entire community, naw they’re saints. BigT, your asshole radar is broke, it’s the exact opposite in this case. The tard tarding up the yard is the asshole because their selfish actions negatively effect all of their neighbors. I’m guessing you don’t own a home. It’s telling that you think the right to trash up a yard trumps the value of the surrounding communities. Thankfully those of us that buy homes in HOA communities can avoid this. > [@BigT](#): > > And that’s precisely why I and a lot of other people hate homeowners associations. Don’t live in communities that have them then … > [@BigT](#): > > Seriously, I don’t get why it bothers you, let alone why you feel afraid. That, in my opinion, is your problem. Jesus. It bothers them because they’re AFRAID it will reduce the value of their property. Does the right to free speach also allow you to damage someone’s investment? ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/79 "2013-06-13T11:32:22Z")
It’s not a gentrified neighborhood, by the way. Which doesn’t mean that the Crazy Christian still wasn’t there first. Maybe they were there first and the surrounding neighbors didn’t have a problem moving in, and I’m just assuming its an eyesore when it’s not. In a certain light, I could see the signs serving as some form of “outsider” art. Perhaps this is how the neighbors have come to seem them too. Thinking about the house, though, has made me think about how risky homeowning is. Now I understand why homeowners get so worked up over stuff that seem so trivial to other people. I don’t think I’d like living under an HOA, and yet it seems like the best way to protect your investment. Of course, a person could stop seeing a house as an investment and stop sweating what the neighbors do. This is why I currently rent…I ain’t got time to go to meetings and complain about shit. But the biggest benefit of homeowning to society is that people are supposed to care about their neighborhoods. We can’t have nice things when people stop caring. ---
**Author:** ![Oliveritaly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oliveritaly/32/15233_2.png) [@Oliveritaly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oliveritaly)\ **Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763/80 "2013-06-13T13:00:49Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > It’s not a gentrified neighborhood, by the way. > > Which doesn’t mean that the Crazy Christian still wasn’t there first. Maybe they were there first and the surrounding neighbors didn’t have a problem moving in, and I’m just assuming its an eyesore when it’s not. > > In a certain light, I could see the signs serving as some form of “outsider” art. Perhaps this is how the neighbors have come to seem them too. > > Thinking about the house, though, has made me think about how risky homeowning is. Now I understand why homeowners get so worked up over stuff that seem so trivial to other people. > > I don’t think I’d like living under an HOA, and yet it seems like the best way to protect your investment. Of course, a person could stop seeing a house as an investment and stop sweating what the neighbors do. This is why I currently rent…I ain’t got time to go to meetings and complain about shit. But the biggest benefit of homeowning to society is that people are supposed to care about their neighborhoods. We can’t have nice things when people stop caring. You kinda nailed my mindset on this. I own a few rentals each has its own HOA. As I don’t live near any of the rentals I actually appreciate it when they notify me regarding any issues. That said when I do retire; I will not be living in a house that has an associated HOA because I don’t want to have to deal with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-homeowners-do-in-a-situation-like-this/660763.md?page=5)