# What do I need to play Magic the Gathering with my kid? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 9, 2012, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311 "2012-04-09T22:24:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/41 "2012-04-13T20:47:20Z")
> [@Trepa\_Mayfield](#): > > Side discussion: what is the creepiest Magic card ever? That’s gotta be somewhere on the list. For me, Card with creepiest art is this [one](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=true&multiverseid=35194). ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/42 "2012-04-13T21:08:24Z")
> [@Quimby](#): > > For me, Card with creepiest art is this [one](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?printed=true&multiverseid=35194). Dear god! No wonder they gave that one new art when they reprinted it in a Duel Deck. > [@Gedd](#): > > A few years ago I talked with a friend who had just begun playing it and I didn’t know half the rules he was talking about. The game seems to have changed a bit. I’m an extremely casual player now, and I first learned the game in '94 before getting away from it for 15 years or so. The play experience isn’t ultimately that different, I think. The biggest rule change, AFAIK, was they went to the stack and Interrupts became obsolete, which would have been when you were still playing. I wonder if it’s more terminology that’s changed – for instance, each block has its own mechanics, but in older sets they were less often given official names. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/43 "2012-04-13T22:19:38Z")
I started at Ice Age and in the Limited Tournament format, I was ranked 96th in the State of AZ. I still have my collection of over 15,000 cards. Its a great game of strategy. ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2012, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/44 "2012-04-13T23:47:31Z")
I started in 1994, played with a couple of breaks until tailing off last year. Most of my enjoyment of the game is looking at weird, comical and bizarre card interactions, and I’m a Rules Adviser (which means I’ve passed a test on the rules on the Wizards website within the last twelve months.) The game is still the same game of resource management and reacting to opponents moves. Implementation is different, and in most cases better. [This page](http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/rules) has some useful resources, the best (for beginners) being the Basic Rulebook (the top link). If you want to pick brains about rules or card wordings, you can always PM me. I’d suggest an intro pack each, because basic lands can be hard to come by at first. Innistrad contains many horror themes (there’s a card inspired by Jekyll and Hyde, for example, and another by The Fly, but the main innovation is a decent treatment of werewolves). The third set in the block will be out in less than a month, and this time the good guys win (for a change). [Macabre Waltz](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=97116).That is all. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/45 "2012-04-14T00:18:15Z")
It’s not as much that interrupts became “obsolete” as they just function with the same timing rules as other instants now. There isn’t a special subset of the stack which allows only interrupts to be played. This might seem like it matters but in 95+% of the instances you play a counterspell, there’s no functional difference between an instant and an interrupt. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/46 "2012-04-14T00:30:05Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > …the main innovation is a decent treatment of werewolves… I don’t agree with that. The two spells/zero spells mechanic for changing form is fine, but the use of double faced cards is awful. It necessitates too many kludges for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/47 "2012-04-14T01:51:26Z")
It seems like every block introduces some new mechanic that makes players go “What the _heck_ is _that_?”. The Onslaught block had Morph, the Mirrodin set introduced Equipment, the Kamigawa block had the flip-cards, the Ravnica block had hybrid mana, the Time Spiral block didn’t have anything _but_ weird mechanics, the Lorwyn block introduced Planeswalkers, the Shadowmoor block had the untap symbol, Alara had colored artifacts, the Zendikar block introduced colorless non-artifacts and level-up, Scars of Mirrodin had Phyrexian mana, and now Innistrad has the two-faced cards. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/48 "2012-04-14T03:47:05Z")
I’ve got no objection to “What the _heck_ is _that_?” mechanics as you define them, just double faced cards. For all of the other mechanics you mentioned, any weirdness is intentional. Shadowmoor’s untap symbol is unusual, but it works exactly like you’d expect it to work: like the tap symbol, but you untap a tapped permanent instead of tapping an untapped permanent. Coloured artifacts and colourless non-artifacts are even simpler: the rules already supported these things in theory, there just weren’t any examples in the game [without outside help](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=116391). With DFC, the _intent_ is a permanent that can change between two distinct forms (like Morph or Flip cards), but the removal of the standard back creates unintended consequences. It means you _cannot_ play them without either opaque card sleeves or sanctioned proxies, and it also means that they interact strangely with [Morph-type effects](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=124313). These are bugs in the mechanic that I feel should have axed their use. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/49 "2012-04-14T20:04:09Z")
Oh, yeah, I wasn’t actually disagreeing with that: They _are_ a nuisance. You can also add to the list, by the way, that they don’t really work right in any of the tabletop-simulator computer games: I was considering adding the new Garruk to a deck in one of those, but decided against it partly due to the inconvenience of the two card faces. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2012, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/50 "2012-04-14T20:30:53Z")
If you play Magic using OCTGN 3, it handles the double faced cards just fine. Now the upcoming Miracle cards will be another story. Seems made for online cheating. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/51 "2012-04-15T05:56:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Now the upcoming Miracle cards will be another story. More info, please? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/52 "2012-04-15T06:04:08Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > More info, please? The first time you draw a card each turn, if it’s a Miracle card you can cast it as you draw it for a cheaper cost. It can’t go to your hand first or else your opponent won’t be able to tell if you switched it for another card. Edit: [here’s an example](http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75842/29062181/AVR-ICD_Reforge_the_Soul?pg=1). ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/53 "2012-04-15T14:29:41Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > It’s not as much that interrupts became “obsolete” as they just function with the same timing rules as other instants now. The cards didn’t become obsolete; the card type certainly did. I collapsed the distinction for efficiency’s sake. (Which obv. didn’t work as it yielded two additional posts!) > [@Grumman](#): > > I don’t agree with that. The two spells/zero spells mechanic for changing form is fine, but the use of double faced cards is awful. It necessitates too many kludges for what it’s worth. NO WAY. DFC’s are awesome. I’m not really disagreeing with you – I mean, we disagree, obv., but as MaRo is fond of saying, every player isn’t meant to love every card as long as there’s something in the set for you. From what I can tell, on the whole the casual crowd – which represents the substantial majority of packs purchased and a tiny minority of online discussion – loves 'em. BTW, if the OP is still watching now that we’re in the weeds, **MHaye** mentions that basic lands are hard to come by at first. That’s a good point – but once you’re up and running and interested in getting into a deeper experience, the Deckbuilder’s Toolkit has a land pack IIRC. (As do “fat packs,” a box with nine boosters.) Either of those, in addition to the lands that come in the intro packs or duel decks you get, should provide plenty of land when you’re ready to build your own decks. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/54 "2012-04-15T21:06:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, yeah, I wasn’t actually disagreeing with that: They _are_ a nuisance. You can also add to the list, by the way, that they don’t really work right in any of the tabletop-simulator computer games: I was considering adding the new Garruk to a deck in one of those, but decided against it partly due to the inconvenience of the two card faces. > [@Quimby](#): > > If you play Magic using OCTGN 3, it handles the double faced cards just fine. Now the upcoming Miracle cards will be another story. Seems made for online cheating. If you play on the official Magic Online website, there aren’t any problems with implementation. Of course, then you have to pay real money for virtual cards…(and it’s kind of a cutthroat environment). > [@Cliffy](#): > > BTW, if the OP is still watching now that we’re in the weeds, **MHaye** mentions that basic lands are hard to come by at first. That’s a good point – but once you’re up and running and interested in getting into a deeper experience, the Deckbuilder’s Toolkit has a land pack IIRC. (As do “fat packs,” a box with nine boosters.) Either of those, in addition to the lands that come in the intro packs or duel decks you get, should provide plenty of land when you’re ready to build your own decks. That, and if there’s a dedicated gaming store nearby, they’ll usually sell lands for like 5 cents apiece depending. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/55 "2012-04-15T22:29:19Z")
> [@](#): > > If you play on the official Magic Online website, there aren’t any problems with implementation. Of course, then you have to pay real money for virtual cards…(and it’s kind of a cutthroat environment). The cynical part of me thinks that they’re deliberately creating mechanics that don’t work with the tabletop simulator programs, to try to force players into using the program they get money from. But hey, the inventors of the original cardboard crack wouldn’t do something like that, would they? ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/56 "2012-04-15T22:49:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The cynical part of me thinks that they’re deliberately creating mechanics that don’t work with the tabletop simulator programs, to try to force players into using the program they get money from. But hey, the inventors of the original cardboard crack wouldn’t do something like that, would they? That seems fairly comically over-cynical. Occam’s razor… did WOTC introduce a new mechanic that does something new and different because: (a) new and different things are what keep the game fresh and keep people playing, or (b) the existence of software that lets people play magic for free is cutting so deeply into WOTC’s profit that they’ve issued a company-wide mandate to come up with ways to interfere with that market, and the best they’ve been able to come up with is… something that requires the software to track which card was drawn first by each player each turn ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/57 "2012-04-15T23:17:41Z")
> [@](#): > > That, and if there’s a dedicated gaming store nearby, they’ll usually sell lands for like 5 cents apiece depending.[URL=“[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=14968883](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=14968883)”] Back when I was playing, my local game store used to give away ordinary lands to regular customers. A nickel apiece doesn’t seem outrageous, though, if you really need the lands. ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/58 "2012-04-16T13:40:54Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Back when I was playing, my local game store used to give away ordinary lands to regular customers. A nickel apiece doesn’t seem outrageous, though, if you really need the lands. Local stores are golden for new people to the game. In 7th grade my friend and I walked into a store and told the guy we were looking for Magic cards. He went into the back and got us a bag full of commons he had. He said they weren’t worth the trouble of trying to sell. There is also the opportunity of finding other people (and decks) to play against, and they will probably be more understanding of new players than on-line people will. ---
**Author:** ![Quimby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/22d042/32.png) [@Quimby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quimby)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/59 "2012-04-16T15:03:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The cynical part of me thinks that they’re deliberately creating mechanics that don’t work with the tabletop simulator programs, to try to force players into using the program they get money from. But hey, the inventors of the original cardboard crack wouldn’t do something like that, would they? They don’t really need to do that when they have every right to just issue a Cease and Desist. I believe they did it once already. The original version of OCTGN was called MTGPlay and had Magic specific terminology and imagery. From what I recall, WotC said something and it was changed to a generic card playing platform and technically the MTG game it can play is a separate plugin that the OCTGN creators have no official connection to. I am kind of shocked they have allowed it to live as long as it has especially since MTGOnline exists. BTW I hope the OP doesn’t mind this has kind of turned into a generic MTG discussion thread… ---
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311/60 "2012-04-16T15:07:11Z")
> [@Lynn\_Bodoni](#): > > Back when I was playing, my local game store used to give away ordinary lands to regular customers. A nickel apiece doesn’t seem outrageous, though, if you really need the lands. Back when you were playing, stores probably didn’t need the basic lands. Now, they probably get through thousands a year running limited format tournaments. Limited formats are those where the entry fee buys a certtain number of boosters; players build their decks from the boosters, then add basic lands to taste. Thing is, the players probably don’t have enough on them, so the TO organises a big pile for players to grab. Time was that the shop could get the lands from opening starter decks or tournament packs. Not any more - they have to _buy_ blocks from WotC to keep the supply up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-i-need-to-play-magic-the-gathering-with-my-kid/618311.md?page=4)