# What do Military snipers do about smoke? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 10, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428 "2017-10-10T01:53:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/1 "2017-10-10T01:53:50Z")
Many reports say smoke alarms gave away the Mandalay Bay shooter’s position. I hadn’t thought about a room filling with modern gunpowder smoke. That could be a problem for military snipers. Hey! That room up there has smoke coming out. Get your shoulder fired rocket and blast it! Could be a very bad day for a military sniper. Do they carry fans? Or how do they deal with smoke? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/2 "2017-10-10T01:59:04Z")
A single shot produces very little smoke. Hundreds of shots… ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/3 "2017-10-10T02:05:26Z")
[Interesting article about snipers](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-sniper_tactics). I think **running coach** got the main answer, but in the wiki’s section about locating snipers, they don’t mention smoke, instead mentioning: > [@](#): > > ``` > the shock wave from a supersonic bullet > the muzzle flash and sound > the heat of the bullet in flight > reflections from the telescopic sight > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/4 "2017-10-10T04:34:16Z")
I’m guessing the modern military handles this by not issuing flintlocks to its snipers. Here’s a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKdIjHRGSGU) of a guy shooting an AR-15 several times in an indoor range. As you can see, the smoke is minimal. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/5 "2017-10-10T04:57:00Z")
Thread has already been answered with “Smoke is a minor concern because they don’t shoot hundreds of rounds within short periods of time because they’re snipers” so lemme make this thread a double tap: One thing I’ve wondered about is why military snipers don’t commonly use suppressors. Adjusting ballistics calculations can’t be all that difficult and it would work great to hide the position or direction, if not the presence\*, of the sniper. Suppressors are at risk of overheating but that’s unlikely to be a major concern for a military sniper. I’ve seen special forces use suppressors so it’s not beyond the pale for the US military. - Yes, I know, supersonic bullets make a cracking sound, hence why I said “if not the presence”. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/6 "2017-10-10T05:20:50Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > One thing I’ve wondered about is why military snipers don’t commonly use suppressors. Adjusting ballistics calculations can’t be all that difficult and it would work great to hide the position or direction, if not the presence\*, of the sniper. Suppressors are at risk of overheating but that’s unlikely to be a major concern for a military sniper. I’ve seen special forces use suppressors so it’s not beyond the pale for the US military. Because: 1. Silencers (“noise suppressors”) are notoriously inaccurate in their effect on aiming. Even to the aim deflection of each round possibly being different from the deflection of the next round. Adjusting aim calculations is difficult when the effect is varying. And you can’t take aiming shots to determine the deflection – a sniper does best when the enemy doesn’t even know he is there until he fires. 2. Noise is unimportant. The sound isn’t heard until after the bullet reaches the target, because the bullet moves faster than sound waves. If the sniper aims right, his target never hears the sound of the rifle, because he’s already dead by then. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/7 "2017-10-10T05:25:41Z")
1. Why would the effect be different from one shot to the next anymore than for other parts of the gun? 2. Snipers often enough require more than one shot per target and targets are seldom alone in military operations. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/8 "2017-10-10T06:34:08Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > 1. Why would the effect be different from one shot to the next anymore than for other parts of the gun? I’m not an expert by any means, but given that a suppressor is, by design, trying to reorient the gasses from a forward motion to a sideways one, but then pushing it back on itself, because it’s a small trapped space, that you’re going to end up with a fairly chaotic system. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/9 "2017-10-10T06:37:42Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > One thing I’ve wondered about is why military snipers don’t commonly use suppressors… Up until 2014 the US Army purchased a total 2,558 Remington M2010 sniper rifles equipped with AAC TiTAN-QD suppressors for use by snipers in Iraq and Afghanistan which are still in use today. The silencer adds about $2,000 per gun so it seems likely that they do use them at least in some situations. If not I want that extra $5.1 million back. Besides helping conceal their position suppressors prevent the muzzle flash from ruining the sniper’s night-adjusted vision. ---
**Author:** ![anomalous1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@anomalous1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anomalous1)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/10 "2017-10-10T06:51:33Z")
I also agree that modern firearms produce very little smoke, repeatedly firing them still will produce very little in comparison to other sources of smoke. Many smoke alarms, the most common type being Ionization detectors, pretty much pick up invisible particles and heat, a Photoelectric smoke alarm uses a beam of light to detect particulates. Usually firearms produce the type of “volatiles” that will be picked up readily by a ionization alarm. I just came here to say that in this instance, a smoke alarm likely saved lives doing exactly what it was supposed to do, but for a non standard purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Crazyhorse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazyhorse/32/31_2.png) [@Crazyhorse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazyhorse)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/11 "2017-10-10T08:40:34Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > I also agree that modern firearms produce very little smoke, repeatedly firing them still will produce very little in comparison to other sources of smoke. Many smoke alarms, the most common type being Ionization detectors, pretty much pick up invisible particles and heat, a Photoelectric smoke alarm uses a beam of light to detect particulates. Usually firearms produce the type of “volatiles” that will be picked up readily by a ionization alarm. I just came here to say that in this instance, a smoke alarm likely saved lives doing exactly what it was supposed to do, but for a non standard purpose. The reported timeline of events of that night keeps changing and currently it looks like the report of a smoke alarm identifying the room was incorrect. The smoke alarm apparently went off when police breached the door with explosives long after the shooting was over. I don’t know what type of detectors they use but it’s safe to say a whole lot of things have been smoked in Vegas hotel rooms without setting them off. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 8:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/12 "2017-10-10T08:58:46Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > 1. Noise is unimportant. The sound isn’t heard until after the bullet reaches the target, because the bullet moves faster than sound waves. If the sniper aims right, his target never hears the sound of the rifle, because he’s already dead by then. That’s a pretty big if. Not all shots hit their targets, and not all targets are outside the earshot of others who will be alerted to the source of the sound. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/13 "2017-10-10T15:53:37Z")
It might not have been smoke from the gunpowder that set off the alarm. It might have been caused by his full-auto fire overheating guns that weren’t designed for it. A gun fired full-auto will eventually catch on fire and burn its wood or plastic stock. The protective gun oils probably burn as well. There are a bunch of videoes on Youtube of people firing M16’s and AK-47’s until they catch on fire. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/14 "2017-10-10T15:59:58Z")
Excellent point. I never considered an overheated barrel. Plastic smokes very easily. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/15 "2017-10-10T16:19:42Z")
I read OP title as “how do snipers deal with targets obscured or partially obscured by smoke” and not only visually but as a matter of atmospheric disturbance that must be factored in in targeting. Alas, no joy. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-military-snipers-do-about-smoke/798428/16 "2017-10-10T17:31:58Z")
As anyone who has burnt toast can probably say, the alarm goes off well before there’s significant visible smoke.