# What do North Americans call those things that you use to fasten your shirt? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 5, 2009, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475 "2009-05-05T23:44:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/81 "2009-05-09T01:46:11Z")
I think the word “ass” for “donkey” goes back to Old English and earlier; the “ass” for “bottom” is a corruption of “arse”. An English woman I met once mentioned a baby’s “button”. It took a while for me to figure out what she was referring to. She asked, “What do you call that in America?” “A ‘pacifier’.” “That makes sense.” ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/82 "2009-05-09T02:49:50Z")
> [@Balthisar](#): > > Interesting that “ass” has become more and more negative over time rather than the opposite. “Ass” obviously refers to the animal, and “to be an ass” is to exhibit a lot of the negative attributes of a donkey. Spanish uses this same concept in the use of “burro,” which is also a donkey. Further consider the old, old cartoons, wherein when someone made an ass of themselves, they would be temporarily depicted as a donkey. > > At some point (either or before the use of “ass” in the above context), the word has come to refer to the derriere, and by extension, the outlet pipe in said ass as the “ass hole” or “asshole,” which is an impolite term compared to “ass,” but is commonly used to refer to someone where “ass” would be a perfectly suitable appellation. Now that “asshole” is impolite, cautious ears now (and IMHO incorrectly) attribute “ass” as being socially impolite, when in fact it’s a perfectly useful word. Ass as buttocks was “impolite” long before people were throwing around “asshole” all the time. It’s generally considered a swear word, even on its own without hole, albeit not in the same category as the f-bomb or worse that you can’t even say on TV, more like bitch\*. It’s certainly a word you couldn’t get away saying in front of most grownups if you were a kid in the 80’s. \*-bitch as in a term of disrespect for a woman, or a mean woman, or an assault on a man’s manliness, not as in “a female canine” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/83 "2009-05-09T02:56:34Z")
> [@EdwardLost](#): > > An English woman I met once mentioned a baby’s “button”. It took a while for me to figure out what she was referring to. She asked, “What do you call that in America?” “A ‘pacifier’.” “That makes sense.” A pacifier is usually referred to in Britain as a baby’s _dummy_. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/84 "2009-05-09T03:09:26Z")
> [@Tahssa](#): > > So what do the British call American cheese? Lots of different things, to be honest - there’s no one single term that I’m aware of. Processed cheese slices, burger cheese or just calling it by the brand name. Of course, with the internet spreading Americanisms around even more than before, some people might _now_ call it American cheese. Course, if it was a South Park quote, then several of us have been whooshed. > [@EdwardLost](#): > > An English woman I met once mentioned a baby’s “button”. It took a while for me to figure out what she was referring to. She asked, “What do you call that in America?” “A ‘pacifier’.” “That makes sense.” I’ve only ever heard it called a dummy. Maybe button’s a regional thing. @gigi: yep, for suspenders too. Over here, suspenders are the things that hold women’s lacy stockings up. It’s slightly amusing to hear staid old men described as wearing suspenders. 😃 FTR, I _did_ mention that I’ve heard pants used for women’s underwear too, but it is definitely rarer than knickers (which is an extraordinarily silly-sounding word). ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/85 "2009-05-09T03:10:55Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Just to be clear, I don’t think an American would fail to understand a reference to an “Obama badge.” However, I think “Obama pin” would be slightly more common than “Obama button.” > > “Badge” has a connotation of something official or authoritative in American English: Police officer’s badge, identification badge (which is usually a rectangular plastic card). I think that use of badge is actually used in America, just not as much, I’ve heard it used before at least. The “kneejerk” word would probably be pin or button, but badge is also a possibility. > [@runcible\_spoon](#): > > In my experience, button/pin mean different kinds of logo/slogan-attached-to-clothing items. Here’s a flag [button](http://www.the-mia.com/assets/USA_flag_button.JPG)and a [pin](http://thekee.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/flag-pin-large1.jpg). Note that the pin is attached more like an earring, although they’ll occasionally have a safety-pin-style attachment. Buttons are invariably safety-pins. They’re also cheaper, since you just need a button press, while pins are usually custom made, and higher quality. Pins are often smaller too, when I hear “button” I tend to think of rather large, cheaply made things a housewife who is volunteering for their local church pressed themselves from stuff they printed out. “Pin” strikes me more as the things you get from Spencer’s (that you are often put on backpacks). > [@Chronos](#): > > Yeah, note that “fanny”, in the US, is about the least offensive word for the buttocks there is. It’s the sort of thing one would say to one’s grandmother, much milder than, say, “ass”. Unoffensive, yes, but mockable. To be honest I’d probably let out a snerk if anyone said that. In fact, I’d say “bum” (or, in a formal situation, “buttocks”) probably is about as offensive and doesn’t cause a laugh to slip (maybe that’s just my family though). ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/86 "2009-05-09T05:19:20Z")
> [@scifisam2009](#): > > FTR, I _did_ …knickers (which is an extraordinarily silly-sounding word). Didn’t it refer to those silly looking shorts American boys wore prior to the 1930s? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/87 "2009-05-09T05:26:02Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > No, usually “stays” refer to the boning in corsets, or any other type of clothing to keep it upright. (collar stays or whatnot) Yeah, I realized that–corrected myself on page one. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/88 "2009-05-09T14:48:56Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > The origin of the double usage stems from the Great Depression. Nobody could afford belts, and it was common for folks to use Herbert Hoover “A chicken in every pot” campaign buttons to hold their pants up during the Rope Shortages. Obviously the onions on their belts were dragging their pants down… ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/89 "2009-05-09T15:04:18Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Ass as buttocks was “impolite” long before people were throwing around “asshole” all the time. It’s generally considered a swear word, even on its own without hole, albeit not in the same category as the f-bomb or worse that you can’t even say on TV, more like bitch\*. It’s certainly a word you couldn’t get away saying in front of most grownups if you were a kid in the 80’s. Ah, yes, it’s certainly contextual. The word “ass” for buttocks is still impolite today. What I’m regarding as unfortunate is that “ass” as a descriptor for a rude, stubborn, or obstinate person is too often regarded as impolite, due to the over use of “ass”-as-buttocks and “asshole”-as-ass. It’s common to call someone an asshole when what you really want to say is ass. It’s corrupted the politeness of “ass,” which is (or should be) a perfectly fine word. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/90 "2009-05-09T15:34:21Z")
Balthisar, you wrote: \> At some point (either or before the use of “ass” in the above context), the word \> has come to refer to the derriere . . . This would seem to imply that we know of a time when it didn’t apply to the derriere. In fact, the word seems to have meant the same thing clear back to the time of proto-Germanic and possibly back to the time of proto-Indo-European. ---
**Author:** ![LawMonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@LawMonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LawMonkey)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/91 "2009-05-09T15:35:39Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > And US men’s shoe sizes are, at least approximately, the length of the foot in inches, so one would never see a man’s shoe that was a size 1 or 2. Not so. While it would be unfair to say that US men’s shoe sizes have no rhyme or reason, they [don’t have very much, either](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe_size#United_States_and_Canada). Length of the foot in inches and shoe size approach each other for a 10-11 inch foot, but [past that there’s not much similarity](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe_size#Adults). ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/92 "2009-05-09T17:41:24Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Balthisar, you wrote: > > \> At some point (either or before the use of “ass” in the above context), the word > \> has come to refer to the derriere . . . > > This would seem to imply that we know of a time when it didn’t apply to the derriere. In fact, the word seems to have meant the same thing clear back to the time of proto-Germanic and possibly back to the time of proto-Indo-European. I guess I don’t see that. At some point in time, the word “ass” (or its proto-Indo-European root) started to mean derriere. Prior to that, the word/sound either didn’t exist or meant something else. Hence, it had to “have come to refer” to its meaning at some point in time. It didn’t always exist. Or I’m totally misunderstanding you, or you me. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/93 "2009-05-09T19:04:01Z")
It sure sounds like you’re talking about recent times when you say: \> . . . either or before the use of “ass” in the above context . . . I can’t see any way to read what you wrote as meaning clear back in the time of the proto-Indo-Europeans. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/94 "2009-05-09T19:12:38Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Yeah, I realized that–corrected myself on page one. D’oh, sorry, I missed your correction. Oh well, I just like talking about old types of clothes! ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/95 "2009-05-09T21:12:23Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > I can’t see any way to read what you wrote as meaning clear back in the time of the proto-Indo-Europeans. I see. I don’t know how far back it goes. I’m originally only pointing out that it’s different, which is why I also indicate before or after. We could clarify things by understanding that “ass” and “ass” are homonyms, and I’m suggesting that they’ve become muddled in recent times. It wasn’t my attention to focus on the history of “ass = derriere,” whose history is irrelevant (‘either or before the use of “ass” in the above context’), but rather how “ass” as “rear end” leads to asshole – being located there – and the modern interpretation of the homonym “ass” being used in place of “asshole”, when they really have two separate meanings and histories. Saying, “he’s an ass” isn’t supposed to the same thing as “he’s an asshole,” and both asses have different histories; the former is a donkey, and the latter refers to the butt. In today’s usage, though, many people decry “ass” as impolite because they incorrectly make the association with the latter usage above. I hope I’m clearer now, and I think I understand your point. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/96 "2009-05-09T21:51:26Z")
O.K., I see your point now. ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/97 "2009-05-09T22:34:46Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > There are no stupid questions, only stupid people. > > Now, what do Americans call “American Cheese”? Square cheese ---
**Author:** ![11811](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/1/9d8465/32.png) [@11811](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/11811)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/98 "2009-05-09T22:50:01Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > And suspenders, right? American here: I think of suspenders as being the vulgar clip-on things you get at a novelty store, very elastic, attach to the pants, more for show than function. When you go to a men’s store for a suit and they sew buttons into the waistline, those are for braces. Is that a common distinction, or am I being a snob? ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2009, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/99 "2009-05-09T23:23:48Z")
> [@BellRungBookShut-CandleSnuffed](#): > > I thought it referred to male and female underwear (as opposed to the US usage of panties, which is only female). A piece of trivia that interested me is that with all the words Japan stole from the US, they stole “pants” from England. Pants in Japan means underwear. And doesn’t _vest_ refer to something different in British English than it does in N.A. English? ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2009, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475/100 "2009-05-10T00:19:03Z")
> [@guizot](#): > > And doesn’t _vest_ refer to something different in British English than it does in N.A. English? I think so: it’s an item of clothing (usually sleeveless, but it can have sleeves sometimes) worn under other clothing to keep warm. It’s also a buttonless top which has no sleeves and is worn as an outer garment (sometimes over another top, but more often on its own). Americans use the word vest in that way too sometimes, though, don’t they? I’ve certainly heard a couple of Americans refer use the word that way, at least, but two people is not exactly a large sample and they were Americans living in England. It’s definitely not a garment which is primarily designed to be worn over shirts and has buttons (those things that you use as fasteners :D) down the front. That’s a waistcoat. This is a difference that genuinely caused me some confusion when reading American books and watching American media. John removing his vest in a crowded room at an overwarm party would be a little more revealing in the UK than in the US, and it’s hard to see how a woman could admire the silk vest of a fully-besuited man. Similar with ‘washing up.’ Over here, that’s ‘washing the dishes.’ For many years I was nonplussed by the apparent American practice of washing the dishes before dinner rather than after, as a point of etiquette rather than ‘oh balls, I’ve run out of clean plates.’ Given the number of US-UK clothing term differences that have been mentioned in this thread, and the many that haven’t (tank top is used differently; turtlenecks are polonecks; deck shoes are canvas shoes, and so on), it’s surely not surprising that I didn’t know that Americans use the same word for shirt buttons as the UK does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-north-americans-call-those-things-that-you-use-to-fasten-your-shirt/495475.md?page=6)