# What do people with advanced degrees in Math and English wind up doing for a living? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 24, 2004, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781 "2004-09-24T00:13:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/21 "2004-09-24T13:07:40Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > I’ve worked with several \*uber-\*genius math wizzes – guys who think getting a PhD is slumming – doing \*uber-\*advanced work developing new computer algorithms, primarily in military applications. The word you’re looking for is “self-important pricks”. It’s only slumming in the sense that academia pays generally less. If their work is so great (and original – in math you still have to be original) why don’t they write it up as a thesis and shop around for a school that will grant a Ph.D. for minimal extra work? Government contracts generally allot more cash for workers with the extra credentials. Look, I’m not saying that academia is a better or worse route than industry. If you want the big bucks, you learn what sells and go into the military-industrial complex. If you’re in math for the math, you go into academia. As for “\*uber-\*advanced”: how much more advanced can you get than _something that nobody else has ever thought of before_ (still the baseline for a Ph.D. in math)? ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/22 "2004-09-24T13:40:45Z")
Granted, I’m in a self-selecting career field, but within the technical career fields in the military, if you say “math major” it’s understood that you mean “NSA employee who does cryptography.” On the weather satellite program I work now, math majors do complicated optics problems, like measuring the distance from a satellite to the sea surface (hundreds of kilometers) with centimeter precision, using only passive sensors. There’s also a big market for them in Cal/Val (calibration and validation): that is, determining empirically how much your satellite’s instruments “drift” over time, and characterizing all of the known biases. Math degrees in the civilian coat-and-tie world qualify you to be an actuary or a statistician. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/23 "2004-09-24T14:15:28Z")
Well, I know one guy with a masters in Physics and a doctorate in English and now he works for the government at Sandia National Labs. Did a lot of various things there before he got onto whatever it is he’s doing now. ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/24 "2004-09-24T14:59:22Z")
The displaced math majors come sneaking into the engineering field, and the displaced engineers go sneaking into the sciences, and the displaced scientists go sneaking into the math field… Q: What doyou call an Aerospace Engineer with two masters degrees? A: Waiter! This is the problem witht he economy, my friend! Apparently, the current admin. thinks job grow on trees and they think they can do nothing about it! Oh, if they only put their minds and powers into action! - Jinx ---
**Author:** ![RiverRunner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/977dab/32.png) [@RiverRunner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RiverRunner)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/25 "2004-09-24T15:46:04Z")
I’m in the computer biz, and I know of at least one math major in our department. Curiously enough, I’m also familiar with a number of music majors who ended up as programmers. They’re good ones, too. RR ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/26 "2004-09-24T15:58:29Z")
I think the OP is asking specifically about **advanced** degrees, though, not just a regular college (bachelor’s) degree with an English or math major. I’ve known several English PhD’s who went into humanities-related computing fields (working for companies that did textbases and text conversion and so forth). My best friend’s an English PhD who worked for a few years in publishing and now produces alumni periodicals for colleges. All the math PhD’s I’ve known became math professors or Wall Street analysts. ---
**Author:** ![Mathochist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c89c15/32.png) [@Mathochist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mathochist)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/27 "2004-09-24T18:31:00Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > All the math PhD’s I’ve known became math professors or Wall Street analysts. Well, hanging around this board is a Ph.D. in math from a very good school who was cruelly squeezed out of the academic market and into actuarial work. Shame, that, though he’s likely making more than I ever will. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/28 "2004-09-24T18:52:35Z")
I have a masters in English. I work in I&TS and write science fiction. The masters helped me more in getting the I&TS job than it did to help me write. There’s no reason why you have to work in the same field as your degree. ---
**Author:** ![andymurph64](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a88e57/32.png) [@andymurph64](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andymurph64)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/29 "2004-09-24T19:51:15Z")
MS in Math here… I work as a Data Analyst in market research. Interesting and the pay doesn’t suck either. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/30 "2004-09-24T20:25:39Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > I got to masters degree level in both English and Maths – I was torn for about 10 years deciding which one I preferred, and finished up studying both. I then became a librarian, and I’ve found both useful in my work ever since. (It really does help as a librarian if you know some stuff outside the humanities) Interesting in that the Dean of my library school (UCLA '84) was a mathematician. Since then, I’ve spent most of my working life outside the field, and the School merged with the School of Education. What that means I don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![633squadron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/6/ee59a6/32.png) [@633squadron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/633squadron)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/31 "2004-09-24T20:48:48Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Just curious. My uncle Matthew was a math professor, then became president of one of the Pennsylvania State University campuses. His son Arnold also has his PhD in mathematics, working for an investment bank in high-brow financial analysis. My co-worker Avrom obtained his PhD in philosophy from Stanford University, taught for a while (and hated it), then became a technical writer. He’s a great person. He’s also unconsciously a certifiable genius. Scary! One of the most capable and brilliant people I have ever met. I have had several tech writing instructors who had PhDs in English. Don’t know any tech writers with one, but I don’t bother to ask people what their degree is in… I work with a software developer named Adam who has a BS in mathematics from Harvard. He’s certainly smart enough and capable enough to get a PhD in mathematics, but I think he wanted to work with software. His choice has certainly paid off for my company! My college roommate has his PhD in mathematics, and co-owns (with his brother) a Southern California company that does mathematics consulting. After Egypt and Israel signed the peace treaty, his company produced algorithms for optimizing searches of the Suez Canal for mines. I once met a fellow who had worked as a hardware engineer for Logitech. He helped them develop their first computer mouse. As a result, he’s filthy rich. He quit his job and is studying for his PhD in history at Stanford. If the Silicon Valley has a problem for me, it’s that there are so many smart, capable people around here that I feel like a real dummy! I’m not talking about “smart” as in “advanced degree,” I’m talking about smart as in sharp, insightful, useful ideas that get implemented. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/32 "2004-09-24T22:19:01Z")
Own and run the financial half of my business…day program for developmentally disabled adults. Can’t trust anyone with company money, payroll, financials, etc. except myself. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2004, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/33 "2004-09-24T22:23:34Z")
Master’s in mathematics (statistics concentration) here. Thesis title: “A Simulation Study of the Analysis of Mixtures Using the Cremer-Von Mises Statistic”. Steadily employed for the last twenty years. Currently IT director for a large state government organization. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/34 "2004-09-25T02:05:58Z")
At Vanderbilt they expect us all to get teaching positions once we have our Ph.D. (I’m in the math program.) ---
**Author:** ![Ringo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/779978/32.png) [@Ringo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ringo)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/35 "2004-09-25T02:12:58Z")
I’ve known a couple of Math Masters who became geophysicists. One got shunted off into seismic data processing, and the other was my early mentor. ---
**Author:** ![Kayeby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de0a6/32.png) [@Kayeby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kayeby)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/36 "2004-09-25T04:49:31Z")
Just to add to the sample: A lot of the lecturers in my university faculty (Media and Communications) have PhDs in English. They teach and write books/do research on the sidelines. I know a woman who got her Masters in English (doing history or latin, if I recall correctly). She’s now an accountant who also does research for the federal government. Her husband (an actuary who did his PhD in astrophysics) said that his firm often seeks out maths majors because their skills are similar to those required of actuaries. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/37 "2004-09-25T13:16:47Z")
Those who live in my area of the world (Baltimore/DC) tend to work for government agencies. I can name two people off of the top of my head who work in that field. ---
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/38 "2004-09-25T20:22:24Z")
I know a number of math majors who work for my company in Quality Assurance. Good QAs need a strong background in logic. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/39 "2004-09-27T16:12:22Z")
> [@Gingy](#): > > Those who live in my area of the world (Baltimore/DC) tend to work for government agencies. I can name two people off of the top of my head who work in that field. One of 'em, checking in. Thanks for pointing me here! > [@Mathochist](#): > > Well, hanging around this board is a Ph.D. in math from a very good school who was cruelly squeezed out of the academic market and into actuarial work. Shame, that, though he’s likely making more than I ever will. While I’m not _that_ math PhD, my story’s not that dissimilar. While I wasn’t exactly squeezed out of academia, I’m doing a hell of a lot better as a government statistician than I was as an academic, and I’d never go back. > [@ITR Champion](#): > > At Vanderbilt they expect us all to get teaching positions once we have our Ph.D. (I’m in the math program.) Those old attitudes die hard, unfortunately. But there just aren’t enough jobs in academia for anywhere near all of the mathematicians that get their PhDs every year. So be thinking about other options. If your research winds up being really good stuff, and you can see productive avenues for your research beyond your dissertation, then you have a pretty good shot at a respectable academic career. But if you get to a point where you realize that your research is not that much better or worse than what all the other doctoral candidates around you are doing, then I’d suggest that you start looking into what the rest of us have done with our credentials. ---
**Author:** ![FlippyFly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e95f7d/32.png) [@FlippyFly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlippyFly)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2004, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781/40 "2004-09-27T16:52:44Z")
Not sure if it holds true anymore, but once upon a time the telephone companies hired a lot of very smart mathematicians to optimize the routing of their calls on the network. I don’t see any reason why this wouldn’t be something they would still need to accomplish. I read a book called “The man who loved only numbers” and it was a biography of Paul Erdos. He worked for the phone company along with a lot of his math friends. On an interesting (at least to me, but then again I’m the type of guy who reads biographies of mathematicians) side note, they were not able to find the optimal solution to the call networking problem, but they developed a formula with which they could test any solution and see by what percentage it was sub-optimal. That always intrigued me… being able to say “I don’t know what the answer is, but I know it’s not this, and I know it is 7% better than this.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-people-with-advanced-degrees-in-math-and-english-wind-up-doing-for-a-living/265781.md?page=3)