# What do prisoners deserve? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2003, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-prisoners-deserve/196135 "2003-08-19T04:37:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RoundGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90ced4/32.png) [@RoundGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoundGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2003, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-prisoners-deserve/196135/61 "2003-08-23T17:49:36Z")
**Psycho** Actually, we preferred to be called “prisoners”. But, “inmate” is fine by me, I consider myself to have been mentally ill for allowing myself to get in the position I was in. > [@](#): > > Twenty minutes is crippling to us because when we run out of room in the chow hall, So the inmates suffer because your state wasn’t bright enough to build a big enough chow hall? > [@](#): > > Five minutes is plenty of time, and that’s what the units need. When was the last time you ate a full meal in five minutes? > [@](#): > > They break a lot of the rules and get away with it because too many officers don’t feel like doing the paperwork to write them a case. I saw this alot. But then, there were the CO’s who couldn’t wait to right up a case, and weren’t too concerned about the actual facts. > [@](#): > > I think that the programs we have in place are fine for rehabilitation. Also, I agree that by teaching them discipline inside the prison, they might just keep it once they get out. I also agree with the custody level for behaviour. **Psycho** , you seem to have a pretty good outlook as a CO, from what I can tell of your posts. You are firm, by the book, but understanding. Many inmates are idiots, I’ll grant you that, but many of us were/are not. Take care of the good ones, and give the bad ones what they deserve – four walls, some food, and a toilet. ---
**Author:** ![Snite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Snite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snite)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-prisoners-deserve/196135/62 "2003-08-24T17:24:29Z")
It’s never been about how bright the state is, but how much money it has. And it simply did not have the money to build large chow halls. Hell, it built four of them for that one unit alone. And I have eaten in five minutes or less. Hell, an ex-military guy who I went through the academy and On the Job Training with was talking about how they were required to eat a full meal in two minutes. If it’s possible, then let’s do it. And as for treating the good guys good and the bad guys bad, there’s no such thing. When they’re acting right I’ll be courteous and helpful and I’ll do my job. When they’re acting a fool I’ll still do my job and put him in his place. But I can’t treat any of them differently. I can’t think to myself “That punk was an asshole yesterday, so fuck him.” And treat him differently than the other offenders. There have been several inmates who have been punks with me one day, then the next they’re needing me to fulfill my job and I do come through. There’s no good-ole-boy system with me. It’s all about what’s happening in the present. Psychopachik Vampire ---
**Author:** ![RoundGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90ced4/32.png) [@RoundGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoundGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2003, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-prisoners-deserve/196135/63 "2003-08-24T20:13:01Z")
> [@](#): > > There have been several inmates who have been punks with me one day, then the next they’re needing me to fulfill my job and I do come through. There’s no good-ole-boy system with me. It’s all about what’s happening in the present. I predict this will change at some point in your career. The punk should have had nothing coming from you until he proves he isn’t a punk anymore. I treated every CO with respect, whether he/she deserved it or not. I never received a shot, and the one time I came close (it could have gone either way), other CO’s backed me up and prevented the write up. One even fought tooth and nail for me to keep my cushy orderly job. You think that would have happened if I didn’t treat the CO’s with respect? I’m not talking about brown-nosing, ass-kissing, snitching or anything like that. I’m talking about basic respect for those in authority over you. On the other hand, _you_ don’t need to treat anybody with respect until they show you they deserve it. That’s the difference between the cops and the prisoners. And, frankly, I wouldn’t blame you for taking that position. A punk one day is a punk the next until he proves otherwise. I guess maybe I wouldn’t make a very good CO… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-prisoners-deserve/196135/64 "2003-08-25T01:15:50Z")
So let’s say prisoners deserve things for three possible reasons: Humanitarian grounds - most people would not deny the basics of food, shelter, and medical care. Pragmatic grounds - establishing certain levels of privileges helps maintain control in prisons. Investment grounds - money spent on rehabilitation will theoretically save money by preventing future crimes and re-incarceration. ---
**Author:** ![RoundGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90ced4/32.png) [@RoundGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RoundGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-prisoners-deserve/196135/65 "2003-08-25T02:55:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Humanitarian grounds - most people would not deny the basics of food, shelter, and medical care. This should be patently obvious. > [@](#): > > Pragmatic grounds - establishing certain levels of privileges helps maintain control in prisons. Absolutely. The well-behaved prisoners get more privileges. This should be common sense. > [@](#): > > Investment grounds - money spent on rehabilitation will theoretically save money by preventing future crimes and re-incarceration. This is also a valid point. The only thing I would add, is that a primary consideration needs to be **threat of escape**. It would make no sense to put a lifer in a minimum security facility. If his crime deserved a life sentence, than his “privileges” must be much less than someone whose crime didn’t. Now, let’s take a look at another point of view: > [@](#): > > Prisoners don’t deserve squat…I think there should be ONE non-denominational church service on Sundays…They should be able to get their high school education but not to go to college…No tv…No smoking…No sports equipment… Comparing your comments to these, which one reflects utter cluelessness and ignorance? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-prisoners-deserve/196135/66 "2003-08-25T03:17:36Z")
ONe of the real difficulties with prisons is the political element. I would argue that a large number of the people who are in prison for simple pot possession are political prisoners, not the same as robbers, murderers and rapists.I think they shouldn’t be in jail, and my viewpoint of how prisons should be run will always be determined by that. Yeah, someone possessing pot is breaking the law, but so did the Founding Fathers once upon a time, and of course everybody thinks they’re swell … now. And the guys who persecuted the witches in Salem, Mass., were just following their duty under the law, which we recognize as incredible barbarism and cruelty … now. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-prisoners-deserve/196135/67 "2003-08-25T03:52:51Z")
> [@](#): > > I would argue that a large number of the people who are in prison for simple pot possession are political prisoners Arguing that victimless crimes should not result in imprisonment is a valid viewpoint. But calling marijuana smoking a form of political action is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-prisoners-deserve/196135/68 "2003-08-25T04:02:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RoundGuy \* > **The only thing I would add, is that a primary consideration needs to be threat of escape. It would make no sense to put a lifer in a minimum security facility. If his crime deserved a life sentence, than his “privileges” must be much less than someone whose crime didn’t.** The threat of escape doesn’t necessarily correlate with the length of the sentance imposed, or with the seriousness of the orginal crime. Escapes are a rarity. More of a threat is violence against staff members. Most inmates just want to serve their time in peace, and probably wouldn’t escape even if the opprotunity was offered to them. Once, at a medium security prison in which my husband worked, a storm knocked down a perimeter fence. When this was discovered by the inmates, they actually ran to tell officers about the problem, and propped it back up into place. Not one tried to approach the breach. We used to have an “honor camp” at the prison in my hometown. This was a large house which had no fences around it which housed maybe twenty inmates. (I remember once when I was a little girl, we were driving by this camp, and my mother scolded me for waving at the inmates who were sitting on lawn chairs out front. I didn’t know they were prisoners.) It was priviledged housing for trustworthy inmates (lifers included) who had exemplary conduct records. This camp was open for more than twenty years, during which there were only a couple of “walk-aways.” (One of which was an inmate who, after many years, couldn’t resist the temptation to go into town for a beer. He was “captured” on his way back to the camp.) Staff assaults, though, happen with alarming frequency in a lot of prisons. There has been a trend in recent years for “SuperMax” prisons, which employ 23-hour-a-day lockdowns as a means of conrtolling ulta-violent offenders. However, civil liberties groups, including the ACLU, have been fighting these prisons, calling them inhumane. I don’t entirely disagree with that assesment, but I can see a need for these kinds of facilities. Some inmates simply cannot be controlled in any other way. ---
**Author:** ![annaplurabelle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@annaplurabelle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/annaplurabelle)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-prisoners-deserve/196135/69 "2003-08-25T05:55:09Z")
**"Arguing that victimless crimes should not result in imprisonment is a valid viewpoint. But calling marijuana smoking a form of political action is ridiculous."** **Nemo** , I don’t think **Evil Captor** meant that drug use is a political action, but that people who are imprisoned for drug use are the “political casualties” of the so-called “War on Drugs”. It’s a documented fact that the expansion of the US prison system and 500% increase in the US prison population (in the last 30 years) is fueled by incarceration of non-violent drug offenders. Earlier, you mentioned that this wasn’t an impartial view. What’s the “other side” of that argument? BTW, regarding privatisation in New York - don’t forget that Rikers has been effectively privatised apart from the CO’s, and that Wackenhut runs the INS detention facility in Queens (Wackenhut is a story in and of itself - google it and founder “George Wackenhut” if you really want to get paranoid). And the Federal Prison Industries (Unicor/FPI) you mentioned aren’t necessarily better than using prisoners for private corp. labour - remember that none of the profits goes toward offsetting the taxpayer costs of operating the prisons. From [UNICOR DOESN’T LOWER TAXPAYER COSTS, IT RAISES THEM](http://edworkforce.house.gov/hearings/105th/oi/prison8598/martin.htm) > [@](#): > > **Testimony of Gary D. Martin, Ph. D. > Before the Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigation > Committee on Education and the Workforce > U.S. House of Representatives** (August 5, 1998) > > The careful reader will notice right off the bat that one of the good things he might have thought we would get out Federal Prison Industries is not there. FPI is expected to pay for itself, and nothing more. In fact, by law, any profits must go back into the operation of UNICOR (as they have come to call it). That’s what they mean by “self-sustaining.” > But, in fact, UNICOR is not self-sustaining. It is costly in one large, fairly easily-measurable way and in another large, not so easily measurable way. > > On the first point, the 1996 UNICOR Annual Report tells us that the Bureau of Prisons budgeted $25.9 million for the subsequent three years for building new buildings and making improvements to old ones. That is taxpayer money that would not have to be spent if there were no UNICOR. The Bureau of Prisons–which is to say, the taxpayer–also foots the bill for UNICOR’s utilities of power and water. > > This second large extra expense is of greater import for a couple of reasons. Being so hard–actually impossible–to measure, it cannot be controlled and there is thus no real limit on its growth. With a source of revenue from thousands of different sources, the UNICOR managers are thereby made uniquely unaccountable. A private seller is held to account by his customer and competition. Not so the managers of UNICOR. All the mismanagement of which they might be guilty can simply be visited upon their customers, who have no choice but to buy. An agency head squandering appropriated funds can be held to account–at least in theory–by executive branch administrators and Congressional appropriators. But to the extent that UNICOR is supposed to be “self-sustaining,” it is free of such scrutiny. FPI sales are $600 million annually and rising, with over $37 million in profits. Where does the money go? > [@](#): > > [Cite](http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:dHWdaMh76m0J:groups.yahoo.com/group/MainLineNews/message/8616%3Fsource%3D1+Unicor+FPI+earnings+profits+sales+report&hl=en&ie=UTF-8): Seventy-three cents of every earned FPI/UNICOR dollar goes toward the purchase of materials/services from the private sector; while twenty cents goes to staff salaries, and seven cents goes for inmate salaries. Guess who profits from that 73 cents per dollar… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2003, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-prisoners-deserve/196135/70 "2003-08-25T14:53:51Z")
I understand the difference between an action being criminalized for political reasons and people commiting crimes for political reasons. I agree that our nation’s drug laws are examples of the former. But from his post, Evil Captor includes marijuana smoking in both categories and mainly in the latter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-prisoners-deserve/196135.md?page=3)