# What do religiously-motivated abortion opponents believe happens to the soul of an aborted fetus? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 28, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812 "2010-06-28T17:32:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/21 "2010-06-29T20:40:42Z")
But Zephyurs is making a reasonable point. If aborted babies get a free pass to Heaven, then wouldn’t getting an abortion be in their best interest? After all if they get born and baptised, there’s a non-zero chance that they may commit enough sins in their life to get sent to purgatory or even eternal damnation in hell. Why take that chance when you have a means of ensuring their direct entry into heaven? ---
**Author:** ![malkavia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malkavia/32/5621_2.png) [@malkavia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/malkavia)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/22 "2010-06-30T00:02:10Z")
My mom and step-dad are both Christian (the new Earth, born-again type) and I’ve often heard them say that God exists outside of time. While we have free will, apparently He already knows what we’re going to decide throughout our lives. The net result, I would assume, is that God either doesn’t impart a soul to a fetus that isn’t going to get out of the womb alive OR perhaps he judges them on the life they would’ve lived if it hadn’t been for human intervention? If I already knew they wouldn’t be born, I’d just skip the soul part. If I didn’t know ahead of time, I’d recycle the soul until it got a body that “took”. Of course, this could be why I don’t have my own universe… who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/23 "2010-06-30T03:05:28Z")
> [@](#): > > The net result, I would assume, is that God either doesn’t impart a soul to a fetus that isn’t going to get out of the womb alive OR perhaps he judges them on the life they would’ve lived if it hadn’t been for human intervention? That seems sort of arbitrary. If God judges souls on what they might have done in some other alternative life, where does it stop? If Adolf Hitler had been born in Iowa I doubt he would have grown up to kill millions of people. So could God judge him innocent based on the life he might have led? ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/24 "2010-06-30T03:38:45Z")
Me: “So what happens to the souls of babies who die before they accepted Christ asn their personal savior?” My Fundamentlist Christian Brother: “They go to Hell.” Me: “Hell-Lite, or right there next to Hitler?” MFCB: “Same Hell as Hitler.” Me: “Wow, isn’t that kind of harsh?” MFCB: “Hey, I don’t make the rules.” His is a modern return to Biblical-literalism that rejects the revisionism of Baptists and other mainstream churches. Such churches don’t have names or charters, and form around an agreeable autocephalic pastor who pulls his vehicles out of his garage every Sunday and sets up a dozen or so folding charis for as many attendees. They don’t need a lot of fancy church trappings like, say, a name for their religion other than “Christian,”, since it’s stone-simple and bible-based. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/25 "2010-06-30T14:51:35Z")
> [@Slithy\_Tove](#): > > Me: “So what happens to the souls of babies who die before they accepted Christ asn their personal savior?” > > My Fundamentlist Christian Brother: “They go to Hell.” > > Me: “Hell-Lite, or right there next to Hitler?” > > MFCB: “Same Hell as Hitler.” > > Me: “Wow, isn’t that kind of harsh?” > > MFCB: “Hey, I don’t make the rules.” > > His is a modern return to Biblical-literalism that rejects the revisionism of Baptists and other mainstream churches. Such churches don’t have names or charters, and form around an agreeable autocephalic pastor who pulls his vehicles out of his garage every Sunday and sets up a dozen or so folding charis for as many attendees. They don’t need a lot of fancy church trappings like, say, a name for their religion other than “Christian,”, since it’s stone-simple and bible-based. Are you older brother? 'Cause our oldest brother sounds like MFCB. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/26 "2010-06-30T14:59:15Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Are you older brother? 'Cause our oldest brother sounds like MFCB. Of course, that first sentence should be _Are you **my** older brother_. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/27 "2010-06-30T15:09:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > But Zephyurs is making a reasonable point. If aborted babies get a free pass to Heaven, then wouldn’t getting an abortion be in their best interest? After all if they get born and baptised, there’s a non-zero chance that they may commit enough sins in their life to get sent to purgatory or even eternal damnation in hell. Why take that chance when you have a means of ensuring their direct entry into heaven? How is this any different than going into the hospital nursery and smothering all the newborns? Those babies (at least according to most religions) would go directly to heaven too, but throughout the ages you don’t see too many religious-types promoting infantcide either. Part of the reason we don’t kill babies for their own good is that we’re supposed to value people being able to live out their lives good or bad and the other is that the murderer of babies is supposed to be looking after their own soul too, and s/he’d be damning themselves through the murders. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/28 "2010-06-30T15:18:04Z")
> [@Zephyurs](#): > > One issue: if God sends aborted fetus souls to heaven instead of hell, it creates some perverse incentives. Very few people are universalists; most sects I know of have the majority of people being sent to hell, if you take the doctrine at all seriously. If you believe in fetal salvation, by aborting as many fetuses as possible you’re doing a great deal of good, in that you’re preventing some proportion of the fetuses from being cast into eternal hellfire. > > Particularly if you repent on your deathbed, you could theoretically save thousands of people from the hellfire. (Even if you don’t, surely it’s a bit selfish to condemn thousands of people to hell just to avoid yourself being cast there.) You can make the same rationale for infanticide. Thus, the inclination of some to theorize about fetal/infant souls getting a do-over, instead of a “go directly to Heaven” card. Shoulda read the whole thread! Elfkin477 just made my point! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/29 "2010-06-30T15:18:06Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > How is this any different than going into the hospital nursery and smothering all the newborns? Those babies (at least according to most religions) would go directly to heaven too, but throughout the ages you don’t see too many religious-types promoting infantcide either. Part of the reason we don’t kill babies for their own good is that we’re supposed to value people being able to live out their lives good or bad and the other is that the murderer of babies is supposed to be looking after their own soul too, and s/he’d be damning themselves through the murders. Except that the notion in question–post-death eternal damnation or bliss being determined by one’s actions in life–reduces mortal existence to being no more meaningful than an algebra exam. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Call_Me_Shirley)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/30 "2010-06-30T15:52:30Z")
> [@malkavia](#): > > My mom and step-dad are both Christian (the new Earth, born-again type) and I’ve often heard them say that God exists outside of time. While we have free will, apparently He already knows what we’re going to decide throughout our lives. > > The net result, I would assume, is that God either doesn’t impart a soul to a fetus that isn’t going to get out of the womb alive OR perhaps he judges them on the life they would’ve lived if it hadn’t been for human intervention? > > If I already knew they wouldn’t be born, I’d just skip the soul part. If I didn’t know ahead of time, I’d recycle the soul until it got a body that “took”. Of course, this could be why I don’t have my own universe.. who knows. But that raises another question: many Christians believe that God has a plan for everyone’s life, and that it is impossible to thwart God’s plan. Combine that with the belief that life begins at conception, and you are led to the inevitable, absurd conclusion that God planned for a precious child to be conceived, live for a few weeks, and then be aborted. Why would God plan that? The only outcome is that a woman has now committed a mortal sin. It makes absolutely no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/32 "2012-03-27T20:40:49Z")
…Ok. > [@vortex\_magic](#): > > The mother has no idea why she has gone into depression after miscarriage or abortion. She has no idea it could be the Traumatic Soul stuck to her. That’s some crazy bullshit right there. Did Scientology rip off Hinduism? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/33 "2012-03-27T20:55:12Z")
We waited two years for that, but it was worth it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/34 "2012-03-27T21:04:10Z")
> [@](#): > > God’s grace to grant a mulligan to the soul of an aborted, miscarried, or newly-born but unbaptized baby, and placing it into a new body to be born. This seems much more cruel to me. What of the pregnant women in Tappuah? > [@](#): > > throughout the ages you don’t see too many religious-types promoting infantcide either There is one example I can think of, it may be apocryphal, but there was a Spanish conquistador that performed joint baptisms and infanticide. Wholly logical given the framework. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/35 "2012-03-27T21:18:08Z")
> [@Lubricious\_Integument](#): > > I was informed by my Sunday school teachers that the soul of an aborted fetus goes straight to hell to experience an eternity of writhing agony, since it had the misfortune of dying prior to receiving a proper baptism. > [@FriarTed](#): > > My own answer- I was taught their fate was the same as any child who died before the age of accountability- go directly to Jesus. I guess different churches have different doctrines on this point. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/36 "2012-03-27T21:20:21Z")
> [@Don\_t\_Call\_Me\_Shirley](#): > > But that raises another question: many Christians believe that God has a plan for everyone’s life, and that it is impossible to thwart God’s plan. > > Combine that with the belief that life begins at conception, and you are led to the inevitable, absurd conclusion that God planned for a precious child to be conceived, live for a few weeks, and then be aborted. Why would God plan that? The only outcome is that a woman has now committed a mortal sin. It makes absolutely no sense. Sometimes a child dies in the womb or not long after birth, for natural reasons, or for traumatic reasons perhaps involving a sin or crime done by somebody, perhaps not. Why would God plan **that?** Nevertheless, IRL it does happen. ---
**Author:** ![florez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9e5f3/32.png) [@florez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/florez)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/37 "2012-03-27T21:22:04Z")
Catholics used to teach that the unbaptized baby who dies goes into a place called LIMBO, this may have changed, but that was what I was taught in Catholic school as a girl. ---
**Author:** ![hoopified](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cab0a1/32.png) [@hoopified](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hoopified)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/38 "2012-03-27T21:23:43Z")
> [@florez](#): > > Catholics used to teach that the unbaptized baby who dies goes into a place called LIMBO, this may have changed, but that was what I was taught in Catholic school as a girl. I believe that is still correct. Protestants believe the baby will go to paradise. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/39 "2012-03-27T21:29:28Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > This seems much more cruel to me. What of the pregnant women in Tappuah? > > There is one example I can think of, it may be apocryphal, but there was a Spanish conquistador that performed joint baptisms and infanticide. Wholly logical given the framework. Then there was that deity that killed off all the babies in the world. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/40 "2012-03-27T21:31:17Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Well, I believe that God is merciful and just, and that no one who ends up in Hell will be able to say they got a raw deal. So my sense of mercy and justice makes me lean toward the idea that aborted babies (or any babies who die before baptism) will end up in heaven. My views are pretty close to the Catholic Church’s official teaching quoted above, although I think I am a little more confident in the babies’ salvation than that teaching expresses. The two years since I wrote that have made me less sure of eternal punishment in Hell for anyone, and more sure of God’s grace and mercy, so that I am even more confident in saying that the souls of babies (born or unborn) will participate in the kingdom of God. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812/41 "2012-03-27T21:35:16Z")
The current Pope did away with [Limbo](http://vivirlatino.com/2007/04/23/pope-no-more-limbo-its-heaven-or-hell.php), though the article title is misleading: there’s still purgatory. Makes “Delirium Tremens” seem a tad outdated ☹ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-religiously-motivated-abortion-opponents-believe-happens-to-the-soul-of-an-aborted-fetus/544812.md?page=3)