# What do Republicans think they can achieve in Iran? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 22, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598 "2009-06-22T16:26:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/41 "2009-06-22T21:53:13Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Tax cuts, I assume. 😃 And more deregulation, of course. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/42 "2009-06-22T21:56:43Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Color me crazy, but wouldn’t it seem more prudent to just let Iran self-destruct? Not if we want stable gas prices. When an oil-producing country is torn by civil war, nobody has time to bother with pumping and exporting the oil. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/43 "2009-06-22T22:13:52Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > My point here is that all the evidence seems to be (at least in this kerfuffle) that a government expressing the wishes of the Iranian people would \*be \*a government that is friendly to the US. 😕 What makes you think **that?!** I don’t think most Iranians are rabidly anti-U.S., but I think the majority **are** sincerely anti-Zionist, though to widely varying degrees. So long as the U.S. is Israel’s best friend . . . Also, as [**Captain Carrot** so helpfully quoted recently](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=11259823&highlight=Vimes#post11259823) from Terry Pratchett’s _The Fifth Elephant:_ > [@](#): > > Inigo: The future Low King is considered pretty clever, Your Grace. Mhm. > Vimes: How does he stand on Ankh-Morpork? > Inigo: He can take Ankh-Morpork or leave it alone, Your Grace. On balance I believe he doesn’t much like us. > Vimes: I thought it was Albrecht that didn’t like us? > Inigo: No, Your Grace. Albrecht is the one who would be happy to see Ankh-Morpork burned to the ground. Rhys merely wishes we didn’t exist. > Vimes: I thought he was one of the good guys! > Inigo: Across the whole of the world, Your Grace, there inexplicably appear to be definitions of, mmm, mhm, ‘good guy’ which do not automatically mean ‘likes Ankh-Morpork’. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/44 "2009-06-22T22:26:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > 😕 What makes you think **that?!** I don’t think most Iranians are rabidly anti-U.S., but I think the majority **are** sincerely anti-Zionist, though to widely varying degrees. So long as the U.S. is Israel’s best friend I suspect friendlier might be a better word than friendly. One thing though. If Moussavi becomes president, he is going to have a hard time keeping the ban on the very communications tools that fed the uprising that got him in. A freer flow of information is good for our side. But he sure as hell is not going to sound friendly to the US right now, or say anything about stopping the nuclear program. ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/45 "2009-06-22T22:37:01Z")
Sean Hannity is so upset by Obama’s (so-called) “lack of action” on Iran that he’s going to play videos of old Reagan speeches on his television show tonight…again. How they pine for Reagan. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/46 "2009-06-22T22:48:20Z")
Wonder if he’ll have video of our bold and courageous adventure in Grenada. Maybe get that Grenada War Memorial back on track. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/47 "2009-06-22T22:52:41Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > How they pine for Reagan. So true. The piners had probably best not read [this Newsweek article](http://www.newsweek.com/id/202620), though. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/48 "2009-06-22T22:56:42Z")
> [@DigitalC](#): > > Republicans will complain about absolutely every single thing Obama does, whether they have a better plan or not is completely irrelevant. Complaining about everything from Obama going on a date with Michele to his response to the Iran election and hoping something, ANYTHING, sticks is all they have left. It’s just a case of the shoe being on the other foot. Nothing has changed, just “the other side” now runs the show, and I expect similarly disappointing results from our government, regardless of the issues at hand or which party is currently high on the hog. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2009, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/49 "2009-06-22T23:22:32Z")
I don’t expect to be plunged headfirst into a turd-infested fever swamp, so that’s a step up… ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/50 "2009-06-23T01:45:24Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > When you’ve got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow. Funny thing, anyone who has ME by the balls is not gonna get my heart or my mind. Fists, yeah. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/51 "2009-06-23T02:17:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I don’t expect to be plunged headfirst into a turd-infested fever swamp, so that’s a step up… Good thing that bar is set so high…do you live near Houston? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/52 "2009-06-23T02:23:21Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > [QUOTE=Der Trihs] > Since when ? America has never cared about freedom; only compliance with it’s wishes. When you’ve got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow. [/QUOTE] Very macho sounding. However, history demonstrates that when you have them by the balls, it’s generally guerrilla war and terrorism that follows, not hearts and minds. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/53 "2009-06-23T03:06:03Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > I don’t get this question. The point to the OP (as far as I can tell) is that stirring up more shit in Iran, as the Republicans are demanding…“What do Democrats hope to acheive by not stirring up more shit?” Except that they’re not demanding anything of the sort. And I didn’t ask that. I asked, plainly, what the Democrats hope of achieve in Iran. Neither side is seeking to “stir shit up”. But since we’ve headed down that road, I might as well ask “What do the Democrats seek to gain by eating all the babies that they do?” > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > America has never cared about freedom; only compliance with it’s wishes. Bullshit. A free and democratic Iraq that hated America would be a victory for the Republicans and for America. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/54 "2009-06-23T03:55:38Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Bullshit. A free and democratic Iraq that hated America would be a victory for the Republicans and for America. As long as Iraq hates America, or is perceived to do so, Republicans can keep using it as a boogeyman. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/55 "2009-06-23T04:35:42Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Bullshit. A free and democratic Iraq that hated America would be a victory for the Republicans and for America. Nonsense. The last thing we as a country wanted was a democratic Iraq; we wanted to subjugate them, and kill foreigners. And the Republicans aren’t even supportive of freedom here, much less elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/56 "2009-06-23T04:52:01Z")
I assure you that the only nonsense spouted here is yours. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/57 "2009-06-23T05:11:47Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > I assure you that the only nonsense spouted here is yours. Yeah, right, America only tortures and kills people for their own good. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/58 "2009-06-23T05:37:34Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Yeah, right, America only tortures and kills people for their own good. :rolleyes: Yep, and it’s only the eeeeevil Republicans that do it, too. Except when it’s not. Your all Republican bashing all the time schtick gets old. It’s like listening to Ann Coulter, only from the other side. I can assure you that I did not pay you a compliment, if anything I did that crazy loon a disservice with the comparison. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/59 "2009-06-23T06:53:10Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Except that they’re not demanding anything of the sort. And I didn’t ask that. I asked, plainly, what the Democrats hope of achieve in Iran. Neither side is seeking to “stir shit up”. But since we’ve headed down that road, I might as well ask “What do the Democrats seek to gain by eating all the babies that they do?” Leading Republicans have criticized the President for not more forcefully making America’s desired outcome in Iran known. That is, Republicans want Obama to engage in old-fashioned saber rattling. This is quite plainly “stirring shit up.” The Administration does not want to muddy the waters among Iranians by allowing the reform movement to be identified with the American government. They want it to avoid even the appearance of American influence. I doubt that this was a very hard distinction for you to grasp, and your vexation issues more from your party’s amateurish statecraft than actual confusion between the two approaches. > [@](#): > > Bullshit. A free and democratic Iraq that hated America would be a victory for the Republicans and for America. This really is empty rhetoric. Given that we are in Iraq because of a Republican administration’s preemptive war (instituted under false pretenses) and the ensuing occupation, it will take a lot more than just asserting “Republicans want good things in Iraq!” to prove this particular howler of a claim. If the Republicans did want to create a free and democratic Iraq, they did a pretty shitty job of it in the six years that they had to do it. > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Yep, and it’s only the eeeeevil Republicans that do it, too. Except when it’s not. Your all Republican bashing all the time schtick gets old. It’s like listening to Ann Coulter, only from the other side. I can assure you that I did not pay you a compliment, if anything I did that crazy loon a disservice with the comparison. Which party orchestrated the whole Iraq fiasco? Republican foreign policy has been an abject failure, and if you paid attention to the 2008 Presidential and Congressional elections, where the Democrats got an electoral mandate, you will know that it was in part a referendum on–and a repudiation of–Republican policies concerning Iraq. It cannot be pretended by anyone that it is the Democratic party that gave us the preemptive war doctrine, the detainee treatment abuses, the wiretapping scandals, the no-bid contracts to Halliburton and KBR, and so on. I know it must be rough to be a Republican these days, as you party speeds to increasing irrelevance. Nevertheless, if you think the evidence damns the Democrats as thoroughly as it does the GOP, you are deeply deluded. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2009, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598/60 "2009-06-23T07:58:57Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > I know it must be rough to be a Republican these days, as you party speeds to increasing irrelevance. Nevertheless, if you think the evidence damns the Democrats as thoroughly as it does the GOP, you are deeply deluded. I’m not a Republican, and I’m not deluded. Just as the party of racism and unnecessary wars evolved into what it is now, the Republican Party will one day once again find itself on the side of the angels. You know it and I know it. So why are you pretending that one party is so much more noble than the other? What’s with this Republicans-love-to-kill-people-and-subjugate-them nonsense? There are millions of people who remember when the Democrats had their turn at it. Holier-than-thou posturing in American politics is nothing more than fortuitous timing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-republicans-think-they-can-achieve-in-iran/500598.md?page=4)