# What do righties have against the ACLU? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2008, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257 "2008-04-07T01:02:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/21 "2008-04-07T01:30:41Z")
[QUOTE=Algher] tell me - is it a justified perception when a minority sees anti-affimative action as being anti-minority? [/QUOTE] yes, it’s a perception… and a person’s perception is their reality, it’s how they see things regardless of the reality. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/22 "2008-04-07T01:30:48Z")
[QUOTE=Algher] cite? After all, there ARE public spaces being used for multiple religions. Do you have a cite for their “embolisms?” > **[Boing Boing - A Directory of Mostly Wonderful Things](https://boingboing.net/)** > > Boing Boing is the Web's favorite site devoted to technology, entertainment, and culture. Launched in 1989 as a print 'zine and still... [/QUOTE] Amusing, but not really on point. Put some verses from the Koran on the wall and see what happens. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/23 "2008-04-07T01:30:54Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] They also tend to be against affirmative action. [/QUOTE] You mean they are PRO affirmative action, right? [http://www.aclu.org/racialjustice/aa/index.html](http://www.aclu.org/racialjustice/aa/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![spayced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spayced](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spayced)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/24 "2008-04-07T01:32:04Z")
It’s hard for me to enter in this debate without reverting to insults. Bill O’Reilly has probably convinced a dim audience that the ACLU is assisting terrorists and child pedophiles. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nja8UTlLKls) Certainly this is from the position that the accusation of a crime is equal to actually committing the crime, and a lack of understanding of the value of an adversarial relationship in the court system. It’s the same people who say, “how can you defend murderers?” Not really understanding that how they ‘feel’ about it isn’t a factor in the success of the system as a whole. See also: anti-intellectualism > **[Anti-intellectualism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-intellectualism)** > > Anti-intellectualism is hostility to and mistrust of intellect, intellectuals, and intellectualism, commonly expressed as deprecation of education and philosophy and the dismissal of art, literature, and science as impractical, politically motivated, and even contemptible human pursuits. Anti-intellectuals present themselves and are perceived as champions of common folk—populists against political and academic elitism—and tend to see educated people as a status class that dominates political d To... ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/25 "2008-04-07T01:32:08Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] What, my thread wasn’t good enough? > **[A Response to Anti-ACLU Sentiment](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=462762)** > > In this thread (which I didn’t want to hijack), ralph124c and ExTank et al. express a common right-wing anti-ACLU viewpoint. I think this viewpoint comes from a lack of knowledge, which is why this in GD and not the Pit. There are people who think... [/QUOTE] I saw your thread… but it was basically focused on two posters from my thread, so I didn’t respond since I didn’t read the two poster’s in question posts, well, not yet anyway. \*ADHD ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/26 "2008-04-07T01:32:13Z")
[QUOTE=Algher] And is shows that others have no comprehension of the history of our nation. [/quote] No it doesn’t. It just means that history isn’t an excuse. > [@](#): > > tell me - is it a justified perception when a minority sees anti-affimative action as being anti-minority? Sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/27 "2008-04-07T01:32:45Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Amusing, but not really on point. Put some verses from the Koran on the wall and see what happens. [/QUOTE] Moving the goal posts, are we? The Wiccans have grave markers in military graveyards, as do Muslims. I assume you can show me some protests for that one? [no edit - but that was snippy of me in the first sentence, and given your consistency in the thread unwarranted. Apologies.] ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/28 "2008-04-07T01:33:56Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Sometimes. [/QUOTE] You are consistent - and I applaud you (honestly - it is a rarity on these topics). ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/29 "2008-04-07T01:34:12Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] This is not a cite for the ACLU trying to take anyone’s rights away. [/QUOTE] DtC, I’m not sure what the point of your OP is. You’ve made up your mind. While I happen to agree with you, your OP is a bit misleading, in that the title: “What do rights have against the ACLU?” …does not match the body of your OP, in which you challenge anyone to prove that people are _justified_ in opposing the ACLU. Since you’ve already made up your mind on the second question, I don’t see why you’d start a thread to just keep saying you’ve made up your mind. If you’re honestly asking the FIRST question, then that has been answered; because they percieve the ACLU threatens Christianity. To some extent this is ignorance - some people are just dumb, and really do think that “liberals” are out to ban the Bible. To some extent, some righties WANT Christianity to be the state religion and don’t like people or groups who support the Bill of Rights in this regard. But I think you already knew that. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/30 "2008-04-07T01:36:11Z")
[QUOTE=JohnnieEnigma] [http://jcb.pentex-net.com/archives/2005/09/is\_the\_aclu\_ant.html](http://jcb.pentex-net.com/archives/2005/09/is_the_aclu_ant.html) [/QUOTE] alright, this link just about sums up how some of us feel about the ACLU and their motives… tell me where this article is misleading. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/31 "2008-04-07T01:37:15Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] What, my thread wasn’t good enough? > **[A Response to Anti-ACLU Sentiment](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=462762)** > > In this thread (which I didn’t want to hijack), ralph124c and ExTank et al. express a common right-wing anti-ACLU viewpoint. I think this viewpoint comes from a lack of knowledge, which is why this in GD and not the Pit. There are people who think... [/QUOTE] Sorry. I didn’t see your thread. It didn’t occur to me that someone else would have been inspired to start a thread on the exact same tangent from the exact same thread. ---
**Author:** ![Anomalous\_Reading](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Anomalous\_Reading](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomalous_Reading)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/32 "2008-04-07T01:38:18Z")
I’m gonna start a pool on how long it will take for this to bump to the Pit. We’re at the make-or-break, I think. Personally, I think the ACLU is doing a fine job of defending the rights of the same people who get all bent. If a gov’t entity wants to create a HISTORICAL something or other as to the history of the law and codification thereof… they can. If the want to pick A religion and wrap themselves in its nice cozy warmth - they can’t. The myth of America as a Christian Government is wrong, wrong, wrong. And people who resist seeing this would rather blame the messenger than understand what is at stake… ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/33 "2008-04-07T01:40:22Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Sorry. I didn’t see your thread. It didn’t occur to me that someone else would have been inspired to start a thread on the exact same tangent from the exact same thread. [/QUOTE] I figured. Yours seems more popular. Clearly I need to learn to make a better pitch. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/34 "2008-04-07T01:41:54Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] DtC, I’m not sure what the point of your OP is. You’ve made up your mind. While I happen to agree with you, your OP is a bit misleading, in that the title: “What do rights have against the ACLU?” …does not match the body of your OP, in which you challenge anyone to prove that people are _justified_ in opposing the ACLU. Since you’ve already made up your mind on the second question, I don’t see why you’d start a thread to just keep saying you’ve made up your mind. If you’re honestly asking the FIRST question, then that has been answered; because they percieve the ACLU threatens Christianity. To some extent this is ignorance - some people are just dumb, and really do think that “liberals” are out to ban the Bible. To some extent, some righties WANT Christianity to be the state religion and don’t like people or groups who support the Bill of Rights in this regard. But I think you already knew that. [/QUOTE] That’s a fair point. I should have phrased the thread title better. What I’m really after is whether the fears are _justified_ of course. ---
**Author:** ![spayced](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spayced](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spayced)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/35 "2008-04-07T01:42:12Z")
[QUOTE=JohnnieEnigma] alright, this link just about sums up how some of us feel about the ACLU and their motives… tell me where this article is misleading. [/QUOTE] It’s completely fabricated. ---
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/36 "2008-04-07T01:48:41Z")
[QUOTE=spayced] It’s completely fabricated. [/QUOTE] now that’s YOUR perception, and you’re entitled to it. I see some real thoughtful observations within that blog, and I kinda agree with this perception of the aclu… …especially with this part: "The ACLU attacks the traditional foundation of the family in society. This is why they fight against parental notification of abortions, school choice, and the parent’s role in educating their children. In fact, they attack traditional forms of authority beyond that of the state. In communist nations, the state is the highest authority and all needs and actions must be made in connection with what is best for the state. That is why you can talk about purges and gulags and communists don’t flinch. Communism requires them. Their attacks on Christianity aren’t designed to eradicate Christianity, per se. They are designed to establish a social order (or more appropriately destroy the existing order) and customs that advance their ideas and Christianity isn’t a part of it. In short, they aren’t anti-Christian in intent, they are anti-Christian in effect." … and now you have a better understand of why righties have something against the aclu. ---
**Author:** ![Anomalous\_Reading](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Anomalous\_Reading](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anomalous_Reading)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/37 "2008-04-07T01:51:06Z")
[QUOTE=JohnnieEnigma] alright, this link just about sums up how some of us feel about the ACLU and their motives… tell me where this article is misleading. [/QUOTE] My Og… that’s a citation?!? I need popcorn! ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/38 "2008-04-07T01:51:42Z")
This link was helpfully posted in the other thread: > **[ACLU Defense of Religious Practice and Expression](https://www.aclu.org/aclu-defense-religious-practice-and-expression?redirect=cpredirect%2F26526)** > > RELIGION & BELIEFRelated IssuesFree Exercise of ReligionGovernment-Funded ReligionReligion and SchoolsThe Public SquareThe ACLU vigorously defends the rights of all Americans to practice their **JohnnieEnigma** , I suggest you take a look. ETA: Oops, redundant. Leaving it in case Johnnie didn’t see it last time. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/39 "2008-04-07T01:52:27Z")
I used to work with a man who hated the ACLU and considered them anti-Christian. I tried to tell him that wasn’t so and his reply was, in effect, “My mind’s made up. Don’t confuse me with the facts.” He didn’t want to hear anything that would change his opinion of them. Is this attitude justified? No. I’ll bet he doesn’t know or want to know that the ACLU has supported Christians, even though a couple of the cases in **Indistinguishable** ’s link happened right in his own backyard. It’s a shame, isn’t it. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257/40 "2008-04-07T01:53:00Z")
[QUOTE=JohnnieEnigma] alright, this link just about sums up how some of us feel about the ACLU and their motives… tell me where this article is misleading. [/QUOTE] Shall we take it one paragraph at a time? > [@](#): > > . They are militant privacy advocates and anti-government to the point of wanting to take away valid tools from law enforcement. Opinion, not fact. Pretty far from fact, to be precise. The role of the ACLU is to uphold the civil rights of those unable to do so for themselves. They stand for the belief that (and I think this is where a large number of those who fall to the right of center have a problem with them) **everyone** has the right to a fair trial as outlined in the Constitution, even accused murderers and child molesters. > [@](#): > > The ACLU attacks the traditional foundation of the family in society. This is why they fight against parental notification of abortions, school choice, and the parent’s role in educating their children. There are several misleading statements in there. The ACLU helps fight to keep religion out of public schools, because, y’know… Church…State…separate. They help teens fight against parental notification because of the right to privacy which, again, is afforded to ALL citizens, not just those old enough to vote. They fight against “school choice” cases because at the base of it, they’re racist. > [@](#): > > Their attacks on Christianity aren’t designed to eradicate Christianity, per se. They are designed to establish a social order (or more appropriately destroy the existing order) and customs that advance their ideas and Christianity isn’t a part of it. In short, they aren’t anti-Christian in intent, they are anti-Christian in effect. Their _perceived_ “attacks on Christianity” are designed to keep Christianity from interfering with government. Because…again…against the Constitution. If Christians wouldn’t continue to try to impose their religion on government, then these “attacks” wouldn’t happen. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-righties-have-against-the-aclu/444257.md?page=3)