# What do skeptics gain by trying to get ppl not to believe in religion/psychics/et al? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 17, 2001, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118 "2001-09-17T07:08:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/61 "2001-09-18T02:23:13Z")
jab, you forgot the most appropriate quote: “The sleep of reason produces monsters.” ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/62 "2001-09-18T02:29:53Z")
I didn’t forget it. I never heard it before. :o ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/63 "2001-09-18T02:30:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > Have you not heard the expression “An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure”? How about “The price of lberty is eternal vigilence”? How about “Knowledge is power” (which implies that ignorance is weakness)? Waiting until an ignorant fool does something bad before you do something about it is waiting too long. If we learn _anything_ from last week, it ought to be that. Yes. So let’s now all go out and break down the doors of every “raghead”, because they _might_ be terrorists. These things work both ways. Feel “threatened” if you like, but remember - some people may think _you_ are a crackpot too. Are you _sure_ that everything you do or say is perfectly “normal”, and could not be construed as “weird” by _anyone?_ You sure about that? So - be on your guard, man! You are just as “suspect” and as “unpredictable” as the next person. David B: I had heard some such story about the crackpot “aromatherapy” garbage prior to this, but a cite is always nice. It never ceases to amaze me that the US government will piss our money away on such things. But they are known for that, and we all should be outraged by their rampant waste of tax dollars, and not just because of the “crackpot” stuff. I’d still like to see some cites showing that HMOs are paying for psychic surgery, though… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/64 "2001-09-18T02:57:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > **So let’s now all go out and break down the doors of every “raghead”, because they _might_ be terrorists.** And just where doid I advocate that? Why are you making “slippery slope” arguments? Why do you think a reasonable amopunt of precaution and security will inevitably lead to that kind of scenario? After all, it wasn’t a “raghead” who blew up the Murrah building. > [@](#): > > **Are you _sure_ that everything you do or say is perfectly “normal”, and could not be construed as “weird” by _anyone?_** I’m an atheist in a country where more than 90% of the population has some kind of belief in the supernatural. I’m quite certain some think I am a crackpot. however, I think I can defend my beliefs quite well. True crackpot beliefs have no basis in reason. > [@](#): > > **So - be on your guard, man!** You think I’m not? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/65 "2001-09-18T03:02:40Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\* > David B: I had heard some such story about the crackpot “aromatherapy” garbage prior to this, but a cite is always nice. It never ceases to amaze me that the US government will piss our money away on such things. But they are known for that, and we all should be outraged by their rampant waste of tax dollars, and not just because of the “crackpot” stuff._\* But, Yousimitebabe, if people didn’t believe in superstitious nonsense like aromatherapy or psychics, then the gov’t wouldn’t piss money away on it. (They might piss money away on other things, but that’s another debate.) ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/66 "2001-09-18T03:17:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > And just where doid I advocate that? Why are you making “slippery slope” arguments? You’re kidding, right? This whole thing is one huge damned “slippery slope”. This “what if” stuff, and your assertion that people with “crackpot” (according to you) views are going on to be more and more unstable. If that is not “slippery slope” thinking, I don’t know what is. > [@](#): > > Why do you think a reasonable amopunt of precaution and security will inevitably lead to that kind of scenario? After all, it wasn’t a “raghead” who blew up the Murrah building. People are already vandalizing Mosques (sp?) and harassing people who look Middle Eastern. It isn’t sanctioned by the Government, (and probably won’t be, ever) but _people_ are doing it **right now.** > [@](#): > > I’m an atheist in a country where more than 90% of the population has some kind of belief in the supernatural. I’m quite certain some think I am a crackpot. Welcome to the club, you are a CRACKPOT!!! A lot of people _think_ you are a crackpot, so you must be! 😃 > [@](#): > > However, I think I can defend my beliefs quite well. That’s fine. I’m sure you can, but I don’t care either way. The point I’ve been trying to make is that no one should “pester” people that _they_ think are “crackpot”. Because of some assumption that if a person believes a certain “crackpot” thing, they will automatically go on to be “unstable” - this is not reasonable. > [@](#): > > True crackpot beliefs have no basis in reason. Oooh. Oooh. You said it, so it must be so! 😃 Who cares? Why be bothered by what other people believe, as long as they leave you alone? > [@](#): > > You think I’m not? Well, I suppose it’s consistent for you to assume that everyone else is watching for “suspect” types, just like you are doing… ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/67 "2001-09-18T03:25:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > But, Yousimitebabe, if people didn’t believe in superstitious nonsense like aromatherapy or psychics, then the gov’t wouldn’t piss money away on it. (They might piss money away on other things, but that’s another debate.) Uh, it’s **Yosemitebabe** , but I forgive you. I know it’s a “crackpot” username! 😃 Once again, blame the damned government. They piss money away on many things, things that many of us are not aware of. It’s a huge issue, and not isolated to “crackpot” spending alone. It seems to me that it’s more about “pissing money away” than it is anything else. Unless you believe that the “crackpots” in the world having _sooo_ much power and influence that they can twist the arms of a right-thinking, unwilling Government, and **force** them to spend money on “crackpot” stuff. If this were the case, we wouldn’t see willful and absurd government waste in other areas, but it seems to me that we do. Waste and absurdity in Govt. spending is across the board. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/68 "2001-09-18T03:39:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by glee \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Hastur \* > > … I think that were Randi really interested in debunking, he would have his language and demeanor remain as impartial as possible so he would not let himself be an open target when the psychic fails. > > > > I think that he creates confabulation and in his television appearances, is just as hungry for publicity as his targets. > > Well it can be difficult to keep calm when confronted by fraud. Particularly when the host of the TV show is not interested in science, only in speculation. > > Of course Randi is interested in publicity! As previous posters have remarked, there’s plenty of unsubstantiated rubbish that gets plenty of attention. Who wants to hear the truth - that psychic powers don’t exist? \*\* I’ve only seen proof that there are some frauds, not that everyone who has seen or experienced such a thing is a fraud. A large difference, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/69 "2001-09-18T03:47:10Z")
Well, this has already become pointless. jab1 and others like him have derailed the conversation to why skeptics get hostile and seem to need to be nasty in their skepticism and now it has become another rant against paranormal abilities. Thank you for injecting phrases like “crackpot” and being nasty. I was attempting to have a debate and discussion, and again I see that it is not possible on this board at this time. DavidB: I was responding before taking a friend to the hospital for an endoscopy. But thanks for casting aspersions and claiming that I was ignoring something willfully when I was answering him as completely as I could in a short period of time. One thing I have seen clearly by some skeptics on this board is that they take any lack of answer as a willful act. Things fall between the cracks. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/70 "2001-09-18T03:50:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > **Hastur, by its very nature faith is blind.** I disagree. I appologize in advance for the hijack about the nature of faith. In his book _Faith Healers_ James Randi identifies three types of faith, with varying degrees of blindness. He calls type I faith “intransigent faith.” He gives an example from an experiment he ran called project alpha. Randi sent two conjurers posing as legitamite psychics to a laboratory in St. Louis. The goal was to find out if the scientists could detect. None of the scientists detected the fraud, but when the hoax was finally revealed one parapsychologist refused to believe that it was a hoax and insisted that the conjuers actually had special powers. His belief in their abilities persisted despite conclusive evidence to the contrary. This is intransigent faith. Type II faith he calls “the will to believe.” From the book: > [@](#): > > It really involves making a decision to believe, even though the reasons for doing so are not compelling. However, there may be reasons for believing that have nothing to do with the logic of the matter; it may be more comforting, more socially advantageous, or simply easier to choose to believe. The third type of faith he calls hypotheses based on evidence. When you cross the street after the light turns green you have faith that it will be safe based upon long experience with traffic lights. Scientists can be said to exibit this type of faith. Note that this faith depends on actual results and is always subject to review. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/71 "2001-09-18T03:53:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > \*\* > Hastur, by its very nature faith is blind. Can you conclusively prove to me that God exists? What, the Bible you say? Man wrote the Bible. It is therefore unreliable as a source to confirm the existence of God. Think about it. > > All faith is destructive to a certain extent. It results in indoctrination instead of realization. How many of you grew up a Roman Catholic, or a Baptist, or a Muslim and never gave it a second thought? Do you sincerely believe in what you say, or is it just that it is what you were taught? Maybe both. I make no judgments about that. > > But the fact that your mind was made up for you limits your thinking, whether you realize it or not. > > That is why I have a problem with religion and Fundamentalists. It requires no thought, just unwavering faith that they are 100% correct and you are wrong. \*\* I am pagan. So much for the Yahweh aspect. Yes, I believe in what I say. My mind was not made up for me. Thanks for playing Incorrect Assumptions for September, 17, 2001. We have some lovely parting gifts for you. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/72 "2001-09-18T03:54:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Dr. Lao \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Airman Doors, USAF \* > > **Hastur, by its very nature faith is blind.** > > I disagree. I appologize in advance for the hijack about the nature of faith. In his book _Faith Healers_ James Randi identifies three types of faith, with varying degrees of blindness. > > \*\* All I can say is THANK YOU. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/73 "2001-09-18T03:59:22Z")
In regards to the OP, I agree with most of the skeptics here. Believing in nonsense can be a dangerous thing. Fred Phelps certainly believes in nonsense and I think he is a dangerous man because of it. Miss Cleo speaking on things she know nothing about is also a dangerous person. Sylvia Brown giving medical advice is very dangerous. All of these people are harmful to society. They have a right to believe what they want, but when they start passing that crap off as the truth, I have the right to get angry about it and challenge them. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/74 "2001-09-18T04:14:25Z")
Yup, everyone’s out to get you, **Hastur**. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/75 "2001-09-18T04:26:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hastur \* > \*\*All I can say is THANK YOU. \*\* Your welcome. Although, it should be noted that I disagree with you on most all other points. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/76 "2001-09-18T04:35:01Z")
Hastur, have you forgotten little ol’ me? You said that not all psychics were frauds(a positive claim.) _I_ said show me one, please(a direct, but polite, challenge to said claim.) ? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/77 "2001-09-18T04:52:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yosemitebabe \* > \*\* > > Uh, it’s **Yosemitebabe** , but I forgive you. I know it’s a “crackpot” username! 😃 > > Once again, blame the damned government. They piss money away on many things, things that many of us are not aware of. It’s a huge issue, and not isolated to “crackpot” spending alone. It seems to me that it’s more about “pissing money away” than it is anything else. Unless you believe that the “crackpots” in the world having _sooo_ much power and influence that they can twist the arms of a right-thinking, unwilling Government, and **force** them to spend money on “crackpot” stuff. If this were the case, we wouldn’t see willful and absurd government waste in other areas, but it seems to me that we do. Waste and absurdity in Govt. spending is across the board. \*\* Sorry…I was typing half blind, (had just cleaned my monitor and it was still kind of blurry) and the u got stuck in there. You misunderstand my point, though. I’m not saying that people who believe in aromatherapy are forcing this on an unwilling government. I’m saying is, the problem is that too many people DO believe that aromatherapy works, or at least figure “Well, it can’t hurt to spend money on it”, including government officials. I read a story a few months ago in the City Paper (which is a Washington DC alternative weekly, which carries Cecil, actually.) I could probably see if it was online if you’d like to see, but it was about a woman who had cancer. If she had been treated conventially, with chemotherapy and surgery, she would have had a good chance at surviving. However, instead of doing that, she chose “alternative” treatment, which basically consisted of making sure that energy fields were aligned and using natural herbs to counteract the poisons of the cancer. Not suprisingly, she died. These people, who she gave her life savings to, got away with it. They weren’t arrested, they weren’t charged with fraud, nothing happened to them, even though their actions caused the death of a young woman who could have lived if she had followed standard medical treatments that have been shown to work. My friend’s father is a fireman/paramedic, and so, a lot of times, he runs into people who need emergency help. Sometimes, though, he finds himself faced with kids who’s parents are Christian Scientists. He’s not allowed to give medical aid to them, even if they need it, or Jehovah’s Witnesses, who he’s not allowed to give blood to, even if they need it. He told me about one time, he found himself with a kid who’s appendix had burst. Under normal circumstances, he would have given the kid a shot of antibiotics and gotten him to the hospital, where a doctor would have performed emergency surgery to remove the ruptured appendix, and suction out the contents of the burst appendix. That kid died in the ambulance, because he couldn’t give the shot of antibiotics, or take the kid to the hospital, so the kid died. He couldn’t have done anything, because he knows that if he did, he would have been fired, sued, and could have gone to jail…he knows this because that happened to coworkers, because we have a society that says that you can believe whatever you want, even if it leads to your death or the death of your family. Maybe this is a better answer to Hastur’s question…this is why I fight. I fight for people like that woman and that kid, who lost their lives because of sloppy thinking and the belief in nonsense. If either of thse people had gotten real medical treatment, their lives could have been saved. I’m sorry if I sound frustrated, but I am frustrated. I’m frustrated when I see human suffering and people who could be saved, not be saved. I’m frustrated when I see superstition saying that some people are inherently superior to others, and I’m frustrated when we turn away from knowledge because we decide we’d rather not not disturb our revealed beliefs. We have a choice as a society. We can either pursue knowledge and use what we learn to make people live longer, eat better, suffer less, and improve their way of life, and also learn about the wonders, the mysteries, and the miracles of the universe around us, or we can reject knowledge, and doom humanity to a short, pain-filled life, where we live in fear of the darkness and of the shadows of gods, demons, and monsters. This is our choice, as a species, and THIS is why I fight. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/78 "2001-09-18T05:09:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Hastur \* > \*\*Well, this has already become pointless. > > jab1 and others like him have derailed the conversation to why skeptics get hostile and seem to need to be nasty in their skepticism and now it has become another rant against paranormal abilities.\*\* Hastur, I suggest that this thread has not become pointless, and that people are trying to answer your questions. You asked, for example. > [@](#): > > Why is it ignorant to have a faith or belief? Why is it ignorant to get tarot readings, see psychics, or god forbid: be one? and > [@](#): > > I’ve seen for the time I have been on here, a great many who think that anything metaphysical is bad and they decry it and wish to stomp it dead. Why? It’s kind of hard to answer a question about why you think belief in the paranormal is wrong or dangerous without having the assumption that belief in the paranormal is wrong or dangerous. I hope though, that I, for one, haven’t been rude or disrespectful, because it hasn’t been my intention. I hope your friend is ok. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/79 "2001-09-18T05:24:55Z")
yosemitebabe wrote: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > > > > How about: Convincing my doctor that “traditional” medicine has got it all wrond, so that the next time I go to him with a pain in my appendix he’ll just send me to a psychic surgeon. > > First off, cite please? Do HMOs cover psychic surgery these days? 😃 No, but there have been chiropractors who have “treated” infectious diseases by adjusting the spine, which occasionally resulted in the disease worsening to the point of it being life-threatening since it was left untreated. And for that, I **do** have a cite: [Undercover Investigations of Chiropractors | Quackwatch](http://www.chirobase.org/02Research/chiroinv.html). > [@](#): > > And of course, you are powerless to refuse to go to the psychic surgeon. Or are you? No, of course I’m not powerless to refuse to go to a psychic surgeon. Nor were the victims of these charlatan chiropractors powerless to seek treatment elsewhere. But they didn’t seek treatment elsewhere, did they? Why not? **Because the charlatan chiropractors were doctors.** Doctors are expected to know more about diseases than their patients. Doctors’ advice is respected, because patients look to doctors as authority figures who probably know more than the patients do about physical maladies. It’s **not** that the patients were gullible little pseudoscientists themselves, it’s that they **took the doctor’s word for it** because they simply did not have the training and knowledge to know that there is **no** evidence that adjusting the spine will cure infectious diseases better than conventional drugs will, and plenty of evidence that conventional drugs will work better. And so long as pseudoscientist parading as “healers” dominate the popular press, while cautionary skeptics are pushed to the sidelines as “party-pooping non believers,” this situation will not improve. ---
**Author:** ![Badtz\_Maru](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e36b37/32.png) [@Badtz\_Maru](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badtz_Maru)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2001, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118/80 "2001-09-18T05:36:02Z")
Isaac Asimov wrote a series of short stories where a diverse group of intellectuals got together for dinner parties in which they would solve various mysteries (I forgot the name of the group temporarily). There was one where a guy was discussing a case where a woman predicted a house fire across the country, and they had concrete proof that she had knowledge of the timing and circumstances of the fire exactly right ahead of time. As he told the tale various members of the group pointed out explanations that did not involve the supernatural. The more about the case the guy revealed, though, the harder it became to explain. Eventually the only possible explanation was a horrible one, that the woman had worked together with a co-conspirator who set the fire himself. At his point it is revealed that the fire was started by a lightning strike. At his point someone concluded that the man was lying. It turned out he made up the story to test whether rational non-believers could be convinced of the reality of psychic phenomena. That’s pretty much always the case. The reason no rational people believe in the supernatural is that every time someone reports something unexplainable, it turns out there is some form of deception in the evidence. I think one reason believers in the supernatural bother skeptics is that they all are either lying to themselves or have the inability to think things out logically and rationally. Dealing with crazies is frustrating. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-skeptics-gain-by-trying-to-get-ppl-not-to-believe-in-religion-psychics-et-al/82118.md?page=5)