# What Do Sovereign Citizens Get Out of All Their Nonsense? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 31, 2019, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-sovereign-citizens-get-out-of-all-their-nonsense/834851 "2019-05-31T21:41:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-sovereign-citizens-get-out-of-all-their-nonsense/834851/162 "2019-10-04T21:32:25Z")
I just want to toss in, let’s not confuse Soverign Citizens with people who ‘test Border Patrol Officers stops’ or ‘test Fruit inspectors (??) stops’…yes, they also come off as stupid and assholish…but they’re also right sometimes. And often in those videos the BP or whoever have been very poorly trained. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2019, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-sovereign-citizens-get-out-of-all-their-nonsense/834851/163 "2019-10-04T23:46:41Z")
> [@Patch](#): > > [Quatloos](http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewforum.php?f=37&sid=99e8ea629c7f1152cab167f221c091db) has forums all about their nonsense in different countries. You almost have to admire somebody who can appear before a Canadian court, argue that he isn’t subject to the United States Constitution, and then have the judge rule against him. It takes a heroic effort to fuck up in court that badly. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-sovereign-citizens-get-out-of-all-their-nonsense/834851/164 "2019-10-05T04:11:06Z")
> [@](#): > > What Do Sovereign Citizens Get Out of All Their Nonsense? Jail. They get jail. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-sovereign-citizens-get-out-of-all-their-nonsense/834851/165 "2019-10-05T05:32:35Z")
Does Japan have these guys? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-sovereign-citizens-get-out-of-all-their-nonsense/834851/166 "2019-10-05T06:31:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You almost have to admire somebody who can appear before a Canadian court, argue that he isn’t subject to the United States Constitution, and then have the judge rule against him. It takes a heroic effort to fuck up in court that badly. I get your point, but of course nobody physically in Canada is subject to the United States Constitution. The real wackiness ensues when Freemen-on-the-Land (FOTL) or SovCits cite the Uniform Commercial Code (UCC) in a Canadian court, or on their pile of documents. The UCC is not Canadian law, so it holds no weight in Canada. “But wait,” says the FOTL, “Canada is a fully-owned corporation of the United States, incorporated in Washington DC.” Or sometimes Canada is incorporated in London, UK. Either way, it’s not true. It would be humorous, but the fact that FOTLs and SovCits believe it with such fervour makes it scary. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2019, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-sovereign-citizens-get-out-of-all-their-nonsense/834851/167 "2019-10-05T16:55:29Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > “Canada is a fully-owned corporation of the United States, incorporated in Washington DC.” [Of course it is.](https://www.international.gc.ca/world-monde/country-pays/united_states-etats_unis/washington.aspx?lang=eng) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2019, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-sovereign-citizens-get-out-of-all-their-nonsense/834851/168 "2019-10-06T03:58:26Z")
> [@Spoons](#): > > I get your point, but of course nobody physically in Canada is subject to the United States Constitution… U.S. citizens visiting Canada are. Here are just three examples of Federal laws enacted pursuant to the Constitution that apply outside the U.S.: > **[Foreign Corrupt Practices Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Corrupt_Practices_Act)** > > The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977 (FCPA) (15 U.S.C. § 78dd-1, et seq.) is a United States federal law that prohibits U.S. citizens and entities from bribing foreign government officials to benefit their business interests. > The FCPA is applicable worldwide and extends specifically to publicly traded companies and their personnel, including officers, directors, employees, shareholders, and agents. Following amendments made in 1998, the Act also applies to foreign firms and persons who, e... > **[PROTECT Act of 2003](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PROTECT_Act_of_2003)** > > Constitutionality of sex offender registriesin the United States > The PROTECT Act of 2003 (Pub. L.Tooltip Public Law (United States) 108–21 (text) (PDF), 117 Stat. 650, S. 151, enacted April 30, 2003) is a United States law with the stated intent of preventing child abuse as well as investigating and prosecuting violent crimes against children. "PROTECT" is a backronym which stands for "Prosecutorial Remedies and Other Tools to End the Exploitation of Children Today". > The PROTECT Act incorporate... > **[International Parental Kidnapping Crime Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Parental_Kidnapping_Crime_Act)** > > The International Parental Kidnapping Crime Act 1993 (IPKCA) is a United States federal law. H.R. 3378, approved December 2, was assigned Public Law No. 103-173 and signed as Public Law 103-322 by President Bill Clinton on September 2, 1993. This law makes it a federal crime to remove a child from the United States or retain a child outside the United States with the intent to obstruct a parent's custodial rights, or to attempt to do so (See 18 U.S.C. § 1204.) This crime is punishable by up t In... Canadian criminal law applies to them, too, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Fentoine\_Lum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b77776/32.png) [@Fentoine\_Lum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fentoine_Lum)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-sovereign-citizens-get-out-of-all-their-nonsense/834851/169 "2019-10-07T17:30:31Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Bottom line, they’re morons with a deep, fundamental, and _complete_ misunderstanding of exactly what the government is and how it functions. They erroneously believe they can exist outside of the government’s authority, yet at the same time benefit from it. They are completely ignorant of the law and yet believe they can manipulate it to their advantage with “magic words” and trivial technicalities like capitalizing certain words in documents. They are near perfect examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect. They sound kinda like the founders to me; just came and took. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-sovereign-citizens-get-out-of-all-their-nonsense/834851.md?page=8)