# What do spies put on their resume? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 4, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681 "2008-12-04T15:24:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/1 "2008-12-04T15:24:36Z")
Let’s say you do clandestine work at the CIA or NSA and you want a new job. What do you put on your resume? You can’t put down “Overthrew a government” or “Stole state secrets from ally”. What could you tell potential employers? ---
**Author:** ![ASAKMOTSD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@ASAKMOTSD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASAKMOTSD)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/2 "2008-12-04T15:27:58Z")
I suspect “Government Analyst” sums it up. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/3 "2008-12-04T15:32:49Z")
“Likes Martinis, shaken, not stirred” ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/4 "2008-12-04T15:37:23Z")
Urban Reconnaissance and Recovery. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/5 "2008-12-04T15:45:32Z")
I just looked at the career opportunities on the CIA website. The relevant positions are in the “clandestine service,” under “field-based clandestine opportunities” and called things like “operations officer” or “collection management officer,” so you might say “operations officer in the clandestine service of the Central Intelligence Agency.” And then you can describe your skills without disclosing anything confidential. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/6 "2008-12-04T15:52:44Z")
They hand in blank resumes. That’s how you know they’re good. The REALLY good ones hand in transparent resumes. Or nothing at all. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/7 "2008-12-04T15:56:32Z")
What an excellent question. Seriously, everywhere you apply for a job or interview, they’re going to want to contact your former employer. If you are a spy, will they make up some fake job along with a “contact” for potential employees? If they didn’t do something like this for you, it would be hard to get a job because you wouldn’t be able to account for a huge gap in your employment or provide references. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/8 "2008-12-04T16:00:56Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Let’s say you do clandestine work at the CIA or NSA and you want a new job. What do you put on your resume? You can’t put down “Overthrew a government” or “Stole state secrets from ally”. What could you tell potential employers? I have a friend who works in a non-clandestine role in the intelligence community. She’s explained to me that she’s not supposed to openly admit or discuss her employer, but that because she’s non-clandestine, if she were to apply to grad school or another employer she’d need to list her current job. The implication was clearly that someone in a clandestine role, on the other hand, would be provided an official cover by the government after their employment ended. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/9 "2008-12-04T16:07:18Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > They hand in blank resumes. That’s how you know they’re good. > > The REALLY good ones hand in transparent resumes. Or nothing at all. And the pros pocket the job off the desk before the interview starts, convince you there never was a position open in the first place, find out your PIN number, and when you wake up… … your secretary is gone. I interviewed for ASIO years ago, and my understanding is you’d have a non-descript title you can use if anyone asks, but you basically get cover jobs too - 2nd assistant attache, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/10 "2008-12-04T16:12:34Z")
In every 1960s spy novel, the spy was attached to the embassy as a “cultural attaché.” Today they’d be trade analysts or private pilots or interpretors. Like I just said about kings in the [Royalty recognized on sight in ancient times?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=495939) thread, forget any notion about spies doing nothing but sitting at home drinking until called upon to kill people. They’re at work all the time, doing real stuff. That gives them real skills for real people with real bosses and real times to put on their resumes. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/11 "2008-12-04T16:35:24Z")
Hmmm. Good question. I have a college friend who’s worked for the CIA for 20 years. I’ll ask him. ---
**Author:** ![davekhps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@davekhps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davekhps)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/12 "2008-12-04T16:35:41Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I just looked at the career opportunities on the CIA website. The relevant positions are in the “clandestine service,” under “field-based clandestine opportunities” and called things like “operations officer” or “collection management officer,” so you might say “operations officer in the clandestine service of the Central Intelligence Agency.” And then you can describe your skills without disclosing anything confidential. This correct. As long as you aren’t covert/clandestine, you simply list your employment with the agency/service you work for, along with a generic title (most of the titles are generic anyway). When you list your relevant experience, by the time you _have_ experience, you are able to generically describe the experience in terms relevant to employers looking for said experience. Meaning: if I worked at the CIA, put down “operations officer,” and described my job in general terms, it’d probably be more than enough to get a job at another government agency as long as the place I’m seeking employment at contains people with experience dealing with the CIA. There’s a shorthand and lingo at work, just as in any industry. For instance, read a tech resume-- to an academic, the IT references won’t make much sense, but to someone at Microsoft, they’ll know exactly what you’re talking about. Now, for jobs that actually are classified, you’d have to be more circumspect because resumes can’t be classified. But they’re just a calling card for an interview anyway-- if you’re ex-CIA applying for a job with Bank of America, they’re going to call your references anyway, so there’s no big deal in not listing the classified specifics of what you did at the CIA _because the Bank of America doesn’t do classified work_. If the ex-CIA employee applied to do classified work at the NSA, however, the NSA rep would probably have a good idea of what work the employee did by their chosen descriptions-- or quickly discovered what they did after they contacted their references. Nothing really all that strange about it in practice, just “different.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/13 "2008-12-04T16:55:46Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > …because the Bank of America doesn’t do classified work… Heh. That’s just what they _want_ you to think. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/14 "2008-12-04T17:11:36Z")
nevermind ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/15 "2008-12-04T17:24:47Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > They hand in blank resumes. That’s how you know they’re good. > > The REALLY good ones hand in transparent resumes. Or nothing at all. Or those that self destruct in 20 seconds.. ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/16 "2008-12-04T17:39:10Z")
My OP made me think of Valerie Plame. Was it known that she worked for the CIA, but not that she was involved in covert activity, or was her employment by the agency a complete secret? ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/17 "2008-12-04T17:39:13Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Hmmm. Good question. I have a college friend who’s worked for the CIA for 20 years. I’ll ask him. psst…He isn’t really your “friend”. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/18 "2008-12-04T17:40:25Z")
Attention to detail; planning and people skills. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/19 "2008-12-04T17:49:13Z")
**davekhps** , maybe you have some inside information, but what you say doesn’t seem very plausible. Suppose I’m an OO for the CIA and I did a lot of work in London with the cover of a Foreign Service Officer or some other position at State. The fact that I was in the CIA would be sensitive information even after I left the CIA, wouldn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2008, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681/20 "2008-12-04T17:58:38Z")
Nobody actually leaves. They just wire your car to explode on the first morning after your employment ends. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-spies-put-on-their-resume/475681.md?page=2)