# What do survivalists really expect to do with gold if the world ends? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2014, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500 "2014-09-25T04:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/61 "2014-10-01T02:02:31Z")
If you should become known as one who uses counterfeit gold in the absence of civil authority, I think you might expect to end dangling from a tree.People are a lot less tolerant of such things when their very survival is threatened by cheats and swindlers. I, personally, would gutshoot such a person and let the gas gangrene make the point of honesty being the best policy. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/62 "2014-10-01T09:51:03Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If nothing else, why would all the people without gold agree to a system of exchange where they have nothing? As the philosopher Bundy stated “What place doesn’t suck when you’re broke?” If you have nothing, the medium of exchange doesn’t matter. If you have stuff to trade, a medium of exchange is pretty important if you want to actually exchange your stuff for other stuff. Yes, you can straight barter, but it’s unreliable, especially if the stuff you have to trade is not durable or storable. Someone wants to pay you for work with a chicken, you don’t want a chicken, you have to keep the chicken until you can find someone who will take it in trade for something you want. As a medium of exchange precious metals are inherently useful. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/63 "2014-10-01T10:06:11Z")
But gold isn’t solely a medium of exchange - it’s also a luxury good. In fact, it’s the very fact that it is a luxury good that makes it a useful medium of exchange. Gold is valuable because people like jewelry; if gold looked like lead it would be worth just as much. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/64 "2014-10-01T13:31:03Z")
I continue to find some of the comments in this thread baffling. Peppercorn was used as money in the ancient world; we learn from Pliny the Elder that a pound of long pepper cost fifteen denarii per pound in the year 77. It wasn’t valuable because people “agreed” to use it as money – _ **it was valuable because people wanted to put it on their food** _. It acquired use as money, because (like gold) it was easily transported and preserved. If you think people will want to put exotic spices on their food in Post-Apocalyptia, stock up! You’re not hoping people will “decide to use spice as money” – you’re hoping they’ll still want to put spice on their food, and that you will be able to barter for toilet paper. You keep the peppercorns instead of paper because of the higher value-per-pound. Similarly, people “agreeing to use gold as money” was an afterthought. The value of gold started when men noticed that women said yes to men who put pretty things on their wrists. I won’t predict the price of gold in Post-Apocalyptia (I won’t predict for 2016, whether the Apocalypse comes by then or not), but I reckon there’s a fair chance someone will find a piece of the shiny metal pretty enough to trade you a lot of toilet paper for it. Hope this helps. Oh, one question for those decrying the value of gold. As you’re stocking up to flee your house forever, you figure you have room for 5 more pounds in your backpack. Your choices are five pounds of toilet paper or five pounds of gold. Which do you take? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/65 "2014-10-01T13:49:14Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I can wipe my ass with some leaves. Toilet paper might be a nice luxury but it’s hardly a necessity. Just be careful doing that- my daughter felt the urge of nature while on a run in the woods and used leaves. Only they were poison oak leaves. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/66 "2014-10-01T14:15:42Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Gold and silver are two more possible items of exchange in such an economy. Will everybody accept them? Probably not, but lots of people will. Pure barter economies are too unwieldy, people will want the convenience of some medium of exchange. Also, those with some eye to the future will want to have a something of value when a new government is established. Confederate money was so much worthless paper after there was no more CSA. Gold and silver, along with useful goods, retained value. Personally, I would stock up on painkillers and antibiotics as my “end of the world as we know it” barter goods. Easy to carry, easy to hide and of great immediate value. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/67 "2014-10-01T15:14:03Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > Personally, I would stock up on painkillers and antibiotics as my “end of the world as we know it” barter goods. Easy to carry, easy to hide and of great immediate value. Those items will also be of value and in demand. They are, of course, also useful for treating pain and illness. On the downside, their efficacy as drugs (and therefore their value) degrades with age. They can also be ruined by moisture, etc. Obviously, they can still be traded after expiration, but the survivalist who doesn’t want to needlessly make enemies would acknowledge that the drug is expired and may not work as well as expected (or at all). Each possibility has its pluses and minuses. Upthread, these choices were referred to as assets in a portfolio. That was very apt. The wise survivalist diversifies hir portfolio. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/68 "2014-10-01T19:58:07Z")
I’m curious if poxy clips is some kind of survivalist slang or just some kind of auto correct fluke. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/69 "2014-10-01T20:20:15Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I continue to find some of the comments in this thread baffling. Peppercorn was used as money in the ancient world; we learn from Pliny the Elder that a pound of long pepper cost fifteen denarii per pound in the year 77. It wasn’t valuable because people “agreed” to use it as money – _ **it was valuable because people wanted to put it on their food** _. It acquired use as money, because (like gold) it was easily transported and preserved. > > If you think people will want to put exotic spices on their food in Post-Apocalyptia, stock up! You’re not hoping people will “decide to use spice as money” – you’re hoping they’ll still want to put spice on their food, and that you will be able to barter for toilet paper. You keep the peppercorns instead of paper because of the higher value-per-pound. > > Similarly, people “agreeing to use gold as money” was an afterthought. The value of gold started when men noticed that women said yes to men who put pretty things on their wrists. I won’t predict the price of gold in Post-Apocalyptia (I won’t predict for 2016, whether the Apocalypse comes by then or not), but I reckon there’s a fair chance someone will find a piece of the shiny metal pretty enough to trade you a lot of toilet paper for it. > > Hope this helps. Oh, one question for those decrying the value of gold. As you’re stocking up to flee your house forever, you figure you have room for 5 more pounds in your backpack. Your choices are five pounds of toilet paper or five pounds of gold. Which do you take? Both, because the density of gold means that 5 pounds of gold (let’s assume Avoirdupios) means I can have 2268 g of gold in a volume of 118 mL (assuming pure gold of course). It’d go up as purity went down, of course, but probably not more than 200 ml depending on purity. I’m not sure what the density of a roll of toilet paper is, but let’s say half a gram per ml. Assuming a single uniform mass, that’s something like 4.5 liters of space. I think my back could take 5 additional pounds in a survival situation. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/70 "2014-10-01T20:54:10Z")
I dunno, man. After all, as freely adapted popular RPG knowledge goes: if you find yourself chased by a rabid grizzly, your goal is not in fact to outrun the grizzly - it is to outrun the guy schlepping 5 pounds of useless gold in his pack :). ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/71 "2014-10-01T21:04:00Z")
> [@SmellMyWort](#): > > I’m curious if poxy clips is some kind of survivalist slang or just some kind of auto correct fluke. The former. I don’t remember when or where I picked it up. Most likely off some usenet board in the early 90’s. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/72 "2014-10-01T23:09:44Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I dunno, man. After all, as freely adapted popular RPG knowledge goes: if you find yourself chased by a rabid grizzly, your goal is not in fact to outrun the grizzly - it is to outrun the guy schlepping 5 pounds of useless gold in his pack :). Hey, I understand. I managed to get exactly three bars of gold out of the Sierra Madre. You know what paid off a lot better? Breaking the casino for more than 10,000 Pre-War money. That was worth something like 100,000 caps and completely weightless. Those stupid gold bars weighed 35 pounds each and were only worth about 30,000 caps in total. I should have traded them in for more Pre-War money before leaving the Sierra Madre, as that would have paid off for 75,000 caps. Anyway, I did the math. At a current spot price of about $39 per gram, that 5 pounds of gold (remember, I assumed Avoirdupois to keep the math simple) is worth about $88,500. Assuming you were buying coins, say Krugerrands with a weight of about 34 g, that’s about 67 coins costing you about $83,900. Seems like you could get a whole lot of more useful supplies for that kind of cash. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2014, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/73 "2014-10-01T23:30:22Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > The former. I don’t remember when or where I picked it up. Most likely off some usenet board in the early 90’s. Sounds like a quote from Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/74 "2014-10-02T23:33:20Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > trade it to people for goods and services Yep. This one is a no question. Gold has always had extremely high value, and, it will never change. Sort of like hot babes with big tits. Yes, every woman has a vagina, and big tits are mostly fat, but, they will probably go out of style just about the same time that gold does, Apocalypse or no. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2014, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/75 "2014-10-02T23:38:50Z")
> [@handsomeharry](#): > > Yep. This one is a no question. Gold has always had extremely high value, and, it will never change. Sort of like hot babes with big tits. Yes, every woman has a vagina, and big tits are mostly fat, but, they will probably go out of style just about the same time that gold does, Apocalypse or no. That would be ‘a no-brainer’ not a ‘no question.’ ---
**Author:** ![Steely\_Dan\_Fan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Steely\_Dan\_Fan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steely_Dan_Fan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/76 "2014-10-03T00:38:17Z")
Make a statue of Ron Paul out of it so that the RonPaulRapture will come and rescue them from the chaos of a world falling apart. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500/77 "2014-10-05T01:44:51Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Just be careful doing that- my daughter felt the urge of nature while on a run in the woods and used leaves. Only they were poison oak leaves. I’ve found that pine needles leave a pleasant smell but ouch! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-survivalists-really-expect-to-do-with-gold-if-the-world-ends/699500.md?page=3)