# What do the active military generals think about Syria involvement? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 3, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868 "2013-09-03T06:57:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/1 "2013-09-03T06:57:33Z")
> **[Military has concerns about Syria mission | CNN Politics](https://www.cnn.com/2013/09/02/politics/syria-military-concerns/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)** > > Concerns exist within the ranks of the military over the outcome of the kind of strike that President Obama is considering against Syria. In an assessment … on July 19, Dempsey outlined possible scenarios and the risks they bring. Dempsey said U.S. involvement, even if it’s limited in nature, would probably lead to an extended stay. “Once we take action, we should be prepared for what comes next. Deeper involvement is hard to avoid,” he wrote. Dempsey explains that risks include retaliatory attacks by the al-Assad regime, civilian casualties and **“extremists” – including al Qaeda, Hezbollah and Iran – gaining more control and access to weapons, including chemical weapons.** … “In a variety of ways, the use of U.S. military force can change the military balance, but it cannot resolve the underlying and historic ethnic, religious and tribal issues that are fueling this conflict,” Dempsey wrote. “ **It is my belief that the side we chose must be ready to support their interests and ours when the balance shifts in their favor. Today, they are not.** ” … Gen. James Mattis, former head of U.S. Central Command, said at a security conference in July that “this is going to be a full-throated, very, very serious war” if the U.S. becomes involved. … [Dempsey] also wrote that controlling chemical weapons would require more resources than just air and cruise missile strikes. He said it would need to be coupled with **“thousands of special operations forces and other ground forces” to secure critical sites.** So - the military strategists expect extended stay, “full-throated war” and thousands of soldiers on the ground. Of course, generals discuss a military action that is more than strictly symbolic and actually produces some kind of results. Silly generals… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 8:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/2 "2013-09-03T08:23:27Z")
Wow. This is significant. In the past, generals on the eve of a possible war have always expressed their lack of concern about the outcome and said the important thing was to have fun. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/3 "2013-09-03T09:14:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Wow. This is significant. In the past, generals on the eve of a possible war have always expressed their lack of concern about the outcome and said the important thing was to have fun. And Obama seems quite anxious to ignore these warnings. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/4 "2013-09-03T10:53:51Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > And Obama seems quite anxious to ignore these warnings. Yeah, that why he just ran in and started bombing. Oh wait, that’s not what happened? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/5 "2013-09-03T15:36:26Z")
Is Obama a Sunni Muslim or a Shia? Could prove significant. Those _madrassa_ he attended in Kenya, what is their denomination? ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/6 "2013-09-03T18:17:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Is Obama a Sunni Muslim or a Shia? Could prove significant. Those _madrassa_ he attended in Kenya, what is their denomination? Southern Bombtist. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/7 "2013-09-03T18:23:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Is Obama a Sunni Muslim or a Shia? Could prove significant. Those _madrassa_ he attended in Kenya, what is their denomination? [According to this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Kenya), Kenyan Muslims are 73% Sunni and 8% Shia. That neatly explains his desire to attack the Assad regime. Wonder if the right-wing blogosphere has made the connection. ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/8 "2013-09-03T18:32:55Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > [According to this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Kenya), Kenyan Muslims are 73% Sunni and 8% Shia. > > That neatly explains his desire to attack the Assad regime. Wonder if the right-wing blogosphere has made the connection. Now they will. They monitor this website for ideas. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/9 "2013-09-03T18:37:49Z")
Dempsey appears to make some pretty big leaps of faith. He states that we’d require troops on the grounds to secure WMD sites. Only trouble is, nobody is proposing that we secure the sites, just eliminate them. He states the deeper involvement is hard to avoid. Funny how we didn’t get in too deep in Libya. The proper role for generals is to do what the secretary of defense and president tell them to do. Not to say they they can’t raise operational issues and concerns, but they need to shut the hell up about policy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/10 "2013-09-03T18:42:08Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Dempsey appears to make some pretty big leaps of faith. He states that we’d require troops on the grounds to secure WMD sites. Only trouble is, nobody is proposing that we secure the sites, just eliminate them. No, we are not proposing to eliminate them. That’s probably why he wants to secure them. Weakening Assad means he has less control of those horrible, horrible WMDs that everyone seems so concerned about. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/11 "2013-09-03T18:46:31Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Dempsey appears to make some pretty big leaps of faith. He states that we’d require troops on the grounds to secure WMD sites. Only trouble is, nobody is proposing that we secure the sites, just eliminate them. He states the deeper involvement is hard to avoid. Funny how we didn’t get in too deep in Libya. The proper role for generals is to do what the secretary of defense and president tell them to do. Not to say they they can’t raise operational issues and concerns, but they need to shut the hell up about policy. Did you say the same thing about General Shinseki when he said we would need “several hundred thousand” troops to secure Iraq? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/12 "2013-09-03T18:54:32Z")
Obama isn’t proposing to occupy Syria, just to damage Assad’s ability to commit mass murder and give him incentive not to repeat the atrocity. So we lob some missiles and knock out some of Assad’s capability, just basically throw some sand in his gears. Will it completely eliminate the WMD threat? No, but it will reduce his capability. Do we have to secure the sites? No, just destroy what we can. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/13 "2013-09-03T19:05:30Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Obama isn’t proposing to occupy Syria, just to damage Assad’s ability to commit mass murder and give him incentive not to repeat the atrocity. So we lob some missiles and knock out some of Assad’s capability, just basically throw some sand in his gears. Will it completely eliminate the WMD threat? No, but it will reduce his capability. Do we have to secure the sites? No, just destroy what we can. It is foolish – positively foolish – to discount professional advice because something seems so easy to a dilettante. This maxim applies whether you are talking about refinishing your floors or dropping bombs on other countries. Let’s say we want to bomb a suspected CW bunker. So, you’re happy with just letting the stuff be released in a giant plume? Well, that seems pretty counter-productive. Ok, then let’s bomb the security posts around the bunker. Well, shit, we just left a stockpile of CW undefended for whoever wants it. Pretty soon it becomes apparent that the only real way to secure chemical weapons is to seize them. Air power doesn’t seize stuff very well. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/14 "2013-09-03T19:07:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Obama isn’t proposing to occupy Syria, just to damage Assad’s ability to commit mass murder and give him incentive not to repeat the atrocity. So we lob some missiles and knock out some of Assad’s capability, just basically throw some sand in his gears. Will it completely eliminate the WMD threat? No, but it will reduce his capability. Do we have to secure the sites? No, just destroy what we can. Are you just defending Obama in order to defend him, or are you on board with bombing Syria? I ask because you’re not making much sense-- you don’t go around bombing CW sites. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/15 "2013-09-03T19:15:42Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Did you say the same thing about General Shinseki when he said we would need “several hundred thousand” troops to secure Iraq? > [@Ravenman](#): > > It is foolish – positively foolish – to discount professional advice because something seems so easy to a dilettante. You do realize that this could have just as easily been an argument _against_ opponents of the GWII: “Hey, what do _you_ know about modern warfare? If the Bush caibnet is okay with a less than six figure invasion force, it’s foolish of you to disagree!” ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/16 "2013-09-03T19:19:46Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > You do realize that this could have just as easily been an argument _against_ opponents of the GWII: “Hey, what do _you_ know about modern warfare? If the Bush caibnet is okay with a less than six figure invasion force, it’s foolish of you to disagree!” Huh? In weighing the opinion of the Chief of Staff of the Army against various political appointees, you’re saying that the soldier is the dilettante? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/17 "2013-09-03T19:25:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Are you just defending Obama in order to defend him, or are you on board with bombing Syria? I ask because you’re not making much sense-- you don’t go around bombing CW sites. I’ll admit I’m no expert on chemical weapons. If it is possible to destroy them without killing everyone within a mile radius, I say do it. Does the heat of a bombing change the chemistry? I don’t know. If bombing them makes a toxic cloud of death, what is the kill radius? I don’t know. If the experts say you can’t destroy them from the air, then destroy the capability to deliver them. Knock out the airstrips, knock out the trucks, whatever. IF we do something, it should be what we can do without committing troops on the ground. I’m not 100% sold on taking action, but I think it’s inappropriate for active officers to comment publicly on pending decisions to be made by their civilian superiors. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/18 "2013-09-03T19:29:34Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’ll admit I’m no expert on chemical weapons. If it is possible to destroy them without killing everyone within a mile radius, I say do it. Does the heat of a bombing change the chemistry? I don’t know. If bombing them makes a toxic cloud of death, what is the kill radius? I don’t know. If the experts say you can’t destroy them from the air, then destroy the capability to deliver them. Knock out the airstrips, knock out the trucks, whatever. IF we do something, it should be what we can do without committing troops on the ground. I’m not 100% sold on taking action, but I think it’s inappropriate for active officers to comment publicly on pending decisions to be made by their civilian superiors. From the OP’s cite: > [@](#): > > In a series of communications with Congress over the summer… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/19 "2013-09-03T19:31:22Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > No, we are not proposing to eliminate them. That’s probably why he wants to secure them. Weakening Assad means he has less control of those horrible, horrible WMDs that everyone seems so concerned about. “_…Seems_ so concerned…”? Is the insinuation intentional, or an accident of wording? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868/20 "2013-09-03T19:31:42Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’ll admit I’m no expert on chemical weapons. If it is possible to destroy them without killing everyone within a mile radius, I say do it. Does the heat of a bombing change the chemistry? I don’t know. If bombing them makes a toxic cloud of death, what is the kill radius? I don’t know. If the experts say you can’t destroy them from the air, then destroy the capability to deliver them. . Who are these experts you are referring to, and why isn’t the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff one of them? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-active-military-generals-think-about-syria-involvement/667868.md?page=2)