# What do the British (now) think of the American Reveloution? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 23, 2002, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205 "2002-04-23T20:40:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Squire-Bob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Squire-Bob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squire-Bob)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/21 "2002-04-24T10:11:36Z")
I am of the oppinion that the British Empire could have been so much more. America we could never have held on to there were far too many cultures in the game (French Dutch Spanish Native). The loss of India is in my mind one of the saddest events in the british 20th century. The Empire could not have survived a dictatorship style colonial system, but a more democratic one could have prospered. The country was crippled at the end of WW2 and we could not afford to keep a military presence in all corners of the world, by the 1960’s we were what we are today ‘The Mouse that Roars’ Its The USA’s world now. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/22 "2002-04-24T10:17:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Genseric \* > **I’ve heard, in the UK, the 4th of July is occasionally known as “Good Riddance Day”.** No, that’s Thanksgiving. Goddamn pilgrims. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/23 "2002-04-24T10:54:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Squire-Bob \* > I am of the oppinion that the British Empire could have been so much more. America we could never have held on to there were far too many cultures in the game (French Dutch Spanish Native). A little like Canada 🙂 ? ( okay not so much Dutch and Spanish, but the Dutch weren’t really a significant presense in the 13 colonies, the Spanish completely peripheral in the 1770’s ). Hindsight is 20-20, but it has often been argued, and I’m inclined to agree, that had the UK been willing to grant the equivalent of Canada’s Dominion status to the colonies, that the American Reolution would probably have never happened. Or at least happened much, much later and probably been rather less violent. Of course whether that would have been the best thing for both parties in the long run is an entirely different question. - Tamerlane ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/24 "2002-04-24T11:08:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by APB \* > \*\*Are the 4th of July celebrations big in Oslo? \*\* Naah. Just something for us US expats to do while the rest of the country is on vacation. The cookie booth and the hula girls are definitely the highlights of the day! ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/25 "2002-04-24T12:29:40Z")
If they didnt lose the US, they wouldnt have colonised Australia. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/26 "2002-04-24T12:49:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by APB \* > You must remember that Britain lost most of its colonies within living memory and, more remarkably, did so **without any obvious long-term trauma to the national psyche.** I wish that _were_ true, but I have to disagree. The “loss” of America is one thing, but Britain’s declining position as a global power during the C20[sup]th[/sup] has had a very serious and long-term traumatising effect, which manifests itself in a variety of anti-social forms. IMHO this is the single greatest problem Britain has faced since WWII, since many other problems are traceable to it or else have been exacerbated by it. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/27 "2002-04-24T13:34:55Z")
**everton** , I must, in turn, strongly disagree. Although it is true that the loss of Empire contributed to Britain’s _economic_ decline (although that argument can itself be overstated), most people don’t see it that way. There seems to me no evidence that significant numbers of Britons regret the loss of Empire or even feel that it was ‘a good thing while it lasted’. Do you personally know anyone who does? Indeed, the prevailing view among academic historians is that the British within Britain, and more especially the English within England, never had that much emotional investment in the idea of Empire in the first place. The story of twentieth-century decline that the British tell themselves is one which is mainly about the two World Wars and post-war economic mismanagement by successive governments/British industry/the unions, not about the Empire. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/28 "2002-04-24T14:07:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jojo \* > As it was they gave up pretty easy really because they decided it wasn’t worth the hassle. The English Pub here in Dallas that I frequent puts up a banner on the 4th of July saying “We let you win” or something like that. I suspect it pisses off a few humorless Americans who can’t take a joke. ---
**Author:** ![everton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@everton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/everton)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/29 "2002-04-24T22:53:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by APB \* > **everton** , I must, in turn, strongly disagree. Although it is true that the loss of Empire contributed to Britain’s _economic_ decline (although that argument can itself be overstated), most people don’t see it that way. There seems to me no evidence that significant numbers of Britons regret the loss of Empire or even feel that it was ‘a good thing while it lasted’. Do you personally know anyone who does? I’d like to believe that you’re right and I’m wrong about this, and it’s difficult to quantify what we might mean by “significant numbers”, but unfortunately, yes I have met people who claim to regret the loss of Empire. I’m talking about racists and those on the far right of the political spectrum. They wallow in a simplistic, mythic version of Britain’s past in which “we” used to tell Johnny Foreigner what to do, and now he tells us. Worse that that they even feel that our country has been overrun by the descendants of those “we” used to govern. > [@](#): > > Indeed, the prevailing view among academic historians is that the British within Britain, and more especially the English within England, never had that much emotional investment in the idea of Empire in the first place. The story of twentieth-century decline that the British tell themselves is one which is mainly about the two World Wars and post-war economic mismanagement by successive governments/British industry/the unions, not about the Empire. Armed with facts, of course academic historians (David Irving notwithstanding) could disabuse these people of their delusion, but they don’t spend much time in those circles. I’m sure it’s true that most people outside Eton and Harrow never thought much of the Empire when it existed, but whilst most of us will recognise our own attitude in your analysis, there are still those who add The Empire to the war-winning glories of Britain’s imaginary past, and their imagination is enough to fuel the aggression and anti-social behaviour I hinted at before. It pains me to be writing this at all, but to underestimate the strength of feeling involved is potentially dangerous. The fact that it is based on a recently-devised fiction rather than hard facts is beside the point. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2002, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/30 "2002-04-24T23:06:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by everton \* > \*\*They wallow in a simplistic, mythic version of Britain’s past … > > there are still those who add The Empire to the war-winning glories of Britain’s imaginary past, and their imagination is enough to fuel the aggression … > > It pains me to be writing this at all, but to underestimate the strength of feeling involved is potentially dangerous. The fact that it is based on a recently-devised fiction rather than hard facts is beside the point. \*\* You’re relatively lucky. We have a **President** who believes a lot of mythology of _our_ past. ---
**Author:** ![BillyGnos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/71c47a/32.png) [@BillyGnos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BillyGnos)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/31 "2002-04-25T03:06:02Z")
A British exchange student I used to be friends with told me that the American Revolution is a rather insignificant period in England’s history. ---
**Author:** ![Katisha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bcef8e/32.png) [@Katisha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katisha)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/32 "2002-04-25T03:45:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by rsa \* > \*\*The English Pub here in Dallas that I frequent puts up a banner on the 4th of July saying “We let you win” or something like that. I suspect it pisses off a few humorless Americans who can’t take a joke. \*\* Heh. I have a history professor who’s English, and he once remarked that according to conservative historians, they didn’t lose at all, seeing as how the colonists were British settlers and the British army was largely Hessian. Though I suspect he was joking (about the historians, not the Hessians). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/33 "2002-04-25T07:39:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Shalmanese \* > If they didnt lose the US, they wouldnt have colonised Australia. Which would mean no Mel Gibson :eek: ---
**Author:** ![KXL](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@KXL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KXL)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/34 "2002-04-25T15:09:22Z")
My sister-in-law married an Englishman and moved to the U.K. They celebrate the 4th of July with a big party (and tons of irony). For their first 4th of July, he wanted to surprise her by doing all the cooking. She went out with friends and returned to find a turkey, stuffing, cranberries . . . oops, wrong holiday. Apparently American Civil War interest is quite high in the UK. How many Americans even know about the British Civil War? (Cromwell, etc.) My personal theory is that the ACW was fought on horses and all, and so is the last vestige of the Americans-as-cowboys icon (which Europeans love – just like Americans think of Europe as all castles and knights). I’d like to see what would happen if Ken Burns did the \*English Civil War. \* ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/35 "2002-04-25T16:00:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bmerton \* > **I think that the loss of India is far sadder. Their culture, religion, depth, art, architecture etc. is far more enviable and magnificent.** And had thousands of years of a head-start on American culture. Oh wait, but the rebellious colonists were mostly British anyway. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/36 "2002-04-25T16:16:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by dtilque \* > \*\* > Which would mean no Mel Gibson :eek: \*\* You still till would have had a Mel as he was born in the [States](http://www.eonline.com/Facts/People/Bio/0,128,267,00.html?yhnws). ---
**Author:** ![keithnmick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90db22/32.png) [@keithnmick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keithnmick)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/37 "2002-04-25T17:33:43Z")
As a brit living in the States I get asked this all the time. To be honest, we spent very little (possibly none) time on the subject back in history class in school - it’s really kind of a blip when you stack it up against all the other history that shaped England - the Magna Carta, the C of E and Henry VIII, the industrial revolution…etc. Also, it stops being funny the twentieth time I hear that “we kicked your ass” - I like to point out that it required the help of the French. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skippman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skippman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skippman)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/38 "2002-04-25T18:17:16Z")
> [@](#): > > I like to point out that it required the help of the French. Like you guys are one to talk. We got you back for that one, or did you really WANT to speak German? Glass houses and all that, mate. 😃 Seriously though, it just goes to show that a people can forgive and forget. England and the US are now best buddies for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/39 "2002-04-25T20:02:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Skippman \* > \*\* England and the US are now best buddies for the most part. \*\* Ok, I’ve resisted pointing this out in this thread to date. But what with the SDMB being about eradicating ignorance, I guess I’m contractually obliged to once more step into the breach… England did not fight a war of independence with the US. The American Revolution was not against the English king. The US was not an English colony. The country in question is **Britain**. The opposing forces were **British**. The two nationalities and countries are **not** interchangeable terms. Ok? It’s a sorry state of affairs when you don’t even know who you were rebelling against. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Skippman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Skippman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skippman)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2002, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205/40 "2002-04-25T20:12:58Z")
“What are you rebelling against?” “What have you got?” Couldn’t help it. And sorry about the whole British thing. Lets see, there’s the U.K., Britain, Great Brittain, and England. So confusing. But I suppose no more confusing than our states. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-british-now-think-of-the-american-reveloution/105205.md?page=3)