# What do the mothers of heinous criminals do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 6, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058 "2009-09-06T14:39:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/1 "2009-09-06T14:39:46Z")
Generally, when someone commits a heinous crime (let’s say murder at a minimum), does their mother stick by them? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/2 "2009-09-06T15:16:10Z")
> [@Angry Lurker](#): > > … (let’s say murder at a minimum) … What on earth is the maximum you’re thinking of? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/3 "2009-09-06T15:32:33Z")
I’m sure Pol Pot had a mama too, you know. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/4 "2009-09-06T16:01:39Z")
You’d have to look at individual cases, since there’s no single “mother behavior” in any type of case. It is my impression that a lot of mothers do stick by their kids more often than you’d think. Of course, if a jury can be convinced that there was reasonable doubt in the OJ Simpson case, I imagine it would be very easy for a mother to convince herself that the kid didn’t really do it, regardless of the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/5 "2009-09-06T16:19:09Z")
I would expect my wife to stick by my sons if they committed a crime. That would not mean pretending that they are not gulty, but we would not stop loving them. ---
**Author:** ![FORTRAN\_forever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f17d59/32.png) [@FORTRAN\_forever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FORTRAN_forever)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/6 "2009-09-06T16:20:13Z")
I have two daughters, aged 27 and 25. To date they’ve both been (within reason) model citizens. If I found out tomorrow that one or both of them was a serial axe murderer - well, they’re still my daughters and I’d stick by them. Even if I knew they were guilty. That’s just the way parenthood goes sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/7 "2009-09-06T17:58:37Z")
_What do the mothers of heinous criminals do? To help them escape when they’re blue? To excuse the son who ate his roommate And daughter who blew up school Your darlings must be innocent And the prosecutor a fool When they’re beset and besieged The mothers self-deceive How do they imply the victims are a sorry lot? Oh, what do loyal mothers do that we do not?_ With apologies to _Camelot._ ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/8 "2009-09-06T18:09:03Z")
They normally say things like “he’s not a bad lad really, more a loveable rogue, and he’s just been misunderstood” It’s an enduring cliche of 1960s London gangsters that they were always nice to their mums, despite the fact they’d spent the day nailing someone’s eyeballs to the floor. ---
**Author:** ![dragonlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@dragonlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dragonlady)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/9 "2009-09-06T18:15:44Z")
I’ve spent a lot of time around prison inmates, and was married to one. (Drug offender, not Heinous Criminal!) Some of the guys I know did some messed up stuff. My husband, when using, was…unacceptable. But they still have good sides. Not all their behavior is awful. I found out that someone I’ve known for years did something unthinkable, and I still feel the same way toward them. They are still the same person they were before, this certain behavior aside. The bad thing is in addition to who they are, it doesn’t change them. Not saying that outrageous behavior is acceptable, it must be stopped. But the PERSON is acceptable. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/10 "2009-09-06T22:46:32Z")
> [@](#): > > What do the mothers of heinous criminals do? They grieve. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/11 "2009-09-07T01:44:20Z")
As a prosecutor I saw several criminals’ moms back in the day, and most made excuses for Sonny or blamed others for his misfortunes. A minority conceded his guilt but stood by him; an even smaller minority were convinced of his guilt and wanted nothing more to do with him. Blood is thicker than water for most people, heinous crimes or no. ---
**Author:** ![dragonlady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@dragonlady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dragonlady)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/12 "2009-09-07T02:37:50Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > They grieve. And we have a winner. ---
**Author:** ![as\_u\_wish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6f9a4e/32.png) [@as\_u\_wish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/as_u_wish)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/13 "2009-09-07T03:02:31Z")
And I suspect many are guilt-ridden wondering if something they did (or didn’t do) contributed to the criminal behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Noel\_Prosequi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b19c9b/32.png) [@Noel\_Prosequi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noel_Prosequi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/14 "2009-09-07T05:08:39Z")
> [@as\_u\_wish](#): > > And I suspect many are guilt-ridden wondering if something they did (or didn’t do) contributed to the criminal behavior. Yup. I suspect that is also a driver for the denial. If you can convince yourself that the kid is innocent (\*innocent, I tells ya!) \*then there is nothing to feel guilty about. Hence the approach taken by mums who do the loud-protestations-of-innocence-in-the-teeth-of-the-evidence thing. But I suspect there is a further chicken-and-egg issue here. The sorts of mothers who never set boundaries, over-indulged their kids, and always excused bad behaviour and blamed everyone else except little Johnnie may well be the ones more likely to have kids who offend. I should add that I doubt that there is a “typical” response from mothers in this situation, but I can well understand the above scenarios being common ones. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6bbea6/32.png) [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Seventh_Deadly_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/15 "2009-09-07T05:20:45Z")
> [@as\_u\_wish](#): > > And I suspect many are guilt-ridden wondering if something they did (or didn’t do) contributed to the criminal behavior. This reminds me-- I have always had a very hard time believing that Jeffrey Dahmer’s parents provided him with a perfectly happy, normal childhood. ---
**Author:** ![Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shinna_Minna_Ma)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/16 "2009-09-07T06:04:05Z")
I went to high school with a guy who was later executed by the state of Maryland. His mother (both parents, actually) never denied the seriousness of his crimes (he raped and killed a few women in two states), but they did work very hard to try to convince the governor not to execute their son. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/17 "2009-09-07T11:13:29Z")
> [@Wallenstein](#): > > They normally say things like “he’s not a bad lad really, more a loveable rogue, and he’s just been misunderstood” I’ve learned to get suspicious when the relatives describe the suspect as “fun-loving”, which can include “likes to get drunk and push over people in wheelchairs”. Although I remember once, many years ago, when a mother was interviewed who flatly said “He’s a bad kid”. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/18 "2009-09-07T16:42:52Z")
> [@Noel\_Prosequi](#): > > But I suspect there is a further chicken-and-egg issue here. The sorts of mothers who never set boundaries, over-indulged their kids, and always excused bad behaviour and blamed everyone else except little Johnnie may well be the ones more likely to have kids who offend. Yes .. this. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/19 "2009-09-07T17:13:44Z")
> [@The\_Seventh\_Deadly\_Finn](#): > > This reminds me-- I have always had a very hard time believing that Jeffrey Dahmer’s parents provided him with a perfectly happy, normal childhood. The trouble is, many times you can find sociopathic serial killers who had decent, even comfortable home lives. Ted Bundy was raised early on by a single mom, but later had a stepfather who does not not fit a conventional abusive picture, and had enough advantages to graduate from college and get into law school. Randall Woodfield (the I-5 Killer, responsible for a string of rapes and murders in the Pacific Northwest in the '80s) came from a good middle-class home. And on and on… The parents are often not to blame, at least not in ways we can detect, though the subset who are enablers and excusers are truly revolting. There _is_ such a thing as a bad seed. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058/20 "2009-09-07T18:59:41Z")
> [@Shinna\_Minna\_Ma](#): > > I went to high school with a guy who was later executed by the state of Maryland. His mother (both parents, actually) never denied the seriousness of his crimes (he raped and killed a few women in two states), but they did work very hard to try to convince the governor not to execute their son. One of my best childhood friends executed a completely innocent man begging for mercy in his own driveway to take his gambling winnings. My friend also confessed to being a serial killer but it has never been proven. His parents made up enough stories and lied on the stand to prevent his execution and get him life Angola instead. That worked. They stand behind him even though he will never get out but they can talk to him and even see him in person some time. Nobody thinks he is innocent except maybe about the serial killer part but that doesn’t matter for his life sentence without the possibility of parole. My own mother has written to him and I would consider it myself. That is just what people, especially parents, do. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-mothers-of-heinous-criminals-do/509058.md?page=2)