# What do the people who object to "American" being used for USians propose? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 23, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207 "2015-06-23T02:59:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/41 "2015-06-23T23:14:03Z")
But by that logic, aren’t Africa Eurasia one continent, since they’re connected by the Sinai? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/42 "2015-06-23T23:47:03Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Five, if you also include Greenland. 🙂 True. But not Han Island! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2015, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/43 "2015-06-23T23:52:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > You were taught that Central America is a _continent_? So there are only three North American countries? For instance, Canada tried to negotiate a Canada-Central America Free Trade Agreement, separate from the North American FTA, which only covers Canada, the US and Mexico. [http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/honduras/ca4-info.aspx?lang=eng](http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/honduras/ca4-info.aspx?lang=eng) ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/44 "2015-06-24T00:43:44Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > But good luck trying to explain that there’s no such continent as “America” to anyone descended from a Spanish school system. No amount of personal testimony will displace what their schoolhouse taught them. There are a number of different continental systems taught in different regions of the world, and most of them are arbitrary. It comes from trying to shoehorn modern geographical knowledge into an ancient Greek system. There isn’t any scientific basis or consistent definition for what a continent is. If the Americas are two different continents, please provide the basis of where exactly to place the dividing line between these continents. The eastern border of Panama doesn’t conform to any real plate tectonic or other geographical feature. And where was the boundary between the two continents before 1903, when Panama was part of Colombia? Was Panama in South America then?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/45 "2015-06-24T00:56:06Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > For instance, Canada tried to negotiate a Canada-Central America Free Trade Agreement, separate from the North American FTA, which only covers Canada, the US and Mexico. > > [http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/honduras/ca4-info.aspx?lang=eng](http://www.international.gc.ca/trade-agreements-accords-commerciaux/agr-acc/honduras/ca4-info.aspx?lang=eng) Oh, there’s no doubt that Central America is a meaningful and well-understood term for a particular region. I’ve just never heard any suggestion that that region is considered by anybody to constitute a continent, any more than Eastern Europe, Southern Africa or East Asia are considered continents. I get that the term “continent” doesn’t have a precise definition and the division of the earth’t land masses into continents is more a matter of habit and convention than any strict system, but I wasn’t aware until today that there was anywhere where Central America is, by habit and convention, regarded as a continent. ---
**Author:** ![pdunderhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4bbf92/32.png) [@pdunderhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pdunderhill)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/46 "2015-06-24T02:48:16Z")
OK, the pedant answers, as one who is used to the usual UK, British, English, Welsh, Scottish or Irish questions, (I’m exhausted already). It entirely depends on who you are speaking to. To some one who speaks English as a native language the accents the answer. To be precise to a Martian, then South, Central or North American is more exact. To Kang and Kodos, well Springfield of course. [![](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:THOH_Kang_and_Kodos.png) ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:THOH_Kang_and_Kodos.png) Peter ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/47 "2015-06-24T02:55:35Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I was taught three: North, South and Central America. > [@UDS](#): > > Oh, there’s no doubt that Central America is a meaningful and well-understood term for a particular region. I’ve just never heard any suggestion that that region is considered by anybody to constitute a continent, any more than Eastern Europe, Southern Africa or East Asia are considered continents. I get that the term “continent” doesn’t have a precise definition and the division of the earth’t land masses into continents is more a matter of habit and convention than any strict system, but I wasn’t aware until today that there was anywhere where Central America is, by habit and convention, regarded as a continent. I’m also going to ask where the idea that North, Central, and South America were three separate continents was taught. I have never heard of any such system. In systems where the Americas are considered a single continent, North, Central, and South America are considered _sub_continents. Wiki gives a summary of the [various systems of enumerating continents](https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Continent), which can vary from three to seven depending on the system. In addition, some systems include a “continent” of [Oceania](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oceania) which includes Australia and various Pacific Islands. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/48 "2015-06-24T05:35:56Z")
In Mexican documents from the time of the revolution, _americanos_ is used. I’m not sure if _norteamericanos_ was also used or is a neologism. But anyway, the idea that _americanos_ properly refers to everyone from that hemisphere seems to be a recent invention. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/49 "2015-06-24T06:00:11Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > Really, my fellow USA citizens, thinking you mustn’t call yourself American when speaking English is as dumb as Christians typing “G-d” on the internet. It looks stilted, if not altogether phony. When speaking Spanish, call yourself _estadounidense_ or _norteamericano_. When speaking English, just call yourself American already and have done with it. Or _americano_, or _yanki_ (if you’re ok with it), or _tejano_ (if you’re from Texas), or _californiano_ (if you’re from California), or… _Gringo_ doesn’t mean anglo-american (it’s not restricted by language, for starters). It means “American”, “foreigner” or “imbecile who thinks that people Elsewhere must behave exactly like people Back Home do” (I’m not talking about people who are surprised by the little details, but about the kind of asshole who stands in the middle of Rome, arms akimbo, and yells “does nobody here speak my language?”). You can be anglo and not be gringo in this last sense, you can be gringo and speak English like a boiled cabbage. Anybody who bothers learn the local language beyond asking for two beers and maybe the toilet is, almost by definition, not being a _gringo_ in this way. There’s even places where it’s come to mean “blond”, according to [RAE](http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=gringo) (who don’t include the derogatory meaning). ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/50 "2015-06-24T12:59:57Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Five, if you also include Greenland. 🙂 Six … in some respects the United Nations functions as as independent political entity … they HQ in NYC. > [@Colibri](#): > > Except that the Canal Zone ceased to exist in 1979 (and even at that was always technically part of Panama). That’s how Panamanians always saw it … the USA considered it a territory. Of all the MOST ridiculous campaign arguments was where Hussian el’Obama was born, and when. The fact remains, his opponent, John McCain, was born at Coco Solo Naval Air Station, Panama Canal Zone … go figure … ---
**Author:** ![furryman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/furryman/32/99_2.png) [@furryman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furryman)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/51 "2015-06-24T17:50:06Z")
I vote for “The People who live between Canada and Mexico”. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/52 "2015-06-24T18:37:13Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I’ve not heard any Canadians objecting, but maybe I don’t move in the right circles of offenderati. 😉 I love that neologism. In my experience, Canadians use the term “American” to refer to denizens of the USA and “North American” to add Canadians to that. Where that leaves Mexicans is a mystery. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/53 "2015-06-24T20:32:40Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > That’s how Panamanians always saw it … the USA considered it a territory. No, legally the US government did not consider it as US territory (even if many Americans behaved as if it was). According to the Hay-Bunau Varilla treaty between the US and Panama, which established the Canal Zone, it remained Panamanian territory although the US was allowed to act “as if it were sovereign.” Birth in the Canal Zone, for one thing, did not convey US citizenship. > [@](#): > > The fact remains, his opponent, John McCain, was born at Coco Solo Naval Air Station, Panama Canal Zone … go figure … Which due to a quirk in the legislation that existed at the time, meant that he was not born a US citizen. Since the Canal Zone was actually Panamanian territory, what would have given McCain citizenship was his birth to US citizens. However, at the time the law said a child of US parents was a citizen if the child was born “out of the limits and jurisdiction of the United States.” Since the Canal Zone was outside the limits, but within the jurisdiction of the US, the law did not apply to McCain. The law was amended shortly after his birth, and he retroactively became a citizen. > [@](#): > > Of all the MOST ridiculous campaign arguments was where Hussian el’Obama was born, and when. [Moderating] I know you are being facetious, but let’s avoid comments that might appear to be political jabs. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/54 "2015-06-24T20:48:10Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [Moderating] > > I know you are being facetious, but let’s avoid comments that might appear to be political jabs. Funny, I was in court a few weeks ago and the judge told me the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/55 "2015-06-24T21:02:24Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > [Moderating] > > I know you are being facetious, but let’s avoid comments that might appear to be political jabs. Since when is that a rule? And anyway, the entire post is a jab at McCain. Why are you citing the Obama part? > [@Colibri](#): > > There are a number of different continental systems taught in different regions of the world, and most of them are arbitrary. It comes from trying to shoehorn modern geographical knowledge into an ancient Greek system. There isn’t any scientific basis or consistent definition for what a continent is. Yeah, I’m aware. But when you start snobbishly telling a group of people what to call themselves, guess whose system you have to use? > [@Colibri](#): > > If the Americas are two different continents, please provide the basis of where exactly to place the dividing line between these continents. The eastern border of Panama doesn’t conform to any real plate tectonic or other geographical feature. And where was the boundary between the two continents before 1903, when Panama was part of Colombia? Was Panama in South America then?:dubious: You don’t need an exact line, but straight through Panama City will do. Before 1903, it was still in the same spot. Yes, part of Panama was and is in South America, cf. Istanbul. Were these supposed to be hard questions? Let me know when Europe can convince you of its division from Asia, and I’ll just duplicate their method. You can’t, nor can anyone, seriously argue that Buenos Aires is on the same continent as Toronto without some super-specialized, professional-jargon reason for declaring such. Such a person deserves to be laughed out of the room. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/56 "2015-06-24T22:23:47Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > In my experience, Canadians use the term “American” to refer to denizens of the USA and “North American” to add Canadians to that. The American Contract Bridge League serves Canada, U.S.A. and Mexico. Its entrant in the World Championship is called the _North America_ Team, which in this and other contexts strikes me as more “majestic” than _American_. Most ACBL teams are called _Surname_, so it was a special honor to play against _North America_ when they were practicing in an ACBL Regional Knockout. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/57 "2015-06-24T23:41:45Z")
> [@furryman](#): > > I vote for “The People who live between Canada and Mexico”. 😉 We prefer “South Canadians”. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/58 "2015-06-24T23:59:26Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Since when is that a rule? And anyway, the entire post is a jab at McCain. Why are you citing the Obama part? Political jabs have always been frowned on in GQ, because of the potential to derail a factual discussion. And commenting that no-one seemed to question McCain’s eligibility, even though he was born outside the US, is a factual comment. Making fun of Obama’s name, without similarly making fun of McCain’s name, can be seen as a one-sided political jab. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/59 "2015-06-25T00:00:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > We prefer “South Canadians”. I personally refer to the Dakotas as “Lower Saskatchewan.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2015, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207/60 "2015-06-25T00:43:20Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Since when is that a rule? And anyway, the entire post is a jab at McCain. Why are you citing the Obama part? You might try reading the [General Questions Rules.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=466202) It’s been in the rules since at least 2008. > [@](#): > > 1. Political, religious, or professional jabs, hijacks, and trolling prohibited. … We don’t tolerate political, religious, professional or personal jabs or insults. And twisting Obama’s name is more of a jab than just pointing out that McCain was born in the Canal Zone. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Yeah, I’m aware. But when you start snobbishly telling a group of people what to call themselves, guess whose system you have to use? This makes no sense at all. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > You don’t need an exact line, but straight through Panama City will do. Before 1903, it was still in the same spot. Yes, part of Panama was and is in South America, cf. Istanbul. Explain exactly why you chose that spot. Explain how that same reasoning can be used to divide Africa from Eurasia. There is no plate tectonic or geological reason to put the division there. (Geologically, [a chunk of northwestern South America is part of the Panama microplate and hence North America](http://www.bssaonline.org/content/100/1/343/F1.large.jpg), and much of eastern Siberia is also part of North America. ). > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Were these supposed to be hard questions? It’s a question that you have only answered by making up an arbitrary boundary with no scientific basis. So yeah, it’s easy if you want to do that, but more difficult if you are trying to answer it in a serious way. > [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Let me know when Europe can convince you of its division from Asia, and I’ll just duplicate their method. > > You can’t, nor can anyone, seriously argue that Buenos Aires is on the same continent as Toronto without some super-specialized, professional-jargon reason for declaring such. Such a person deserves to be laughed out of the room. You’re missing the point rather thoroughly. The various systems of designating continents are arbitrary. “Continents” have no scientific definition, they are simply cultural constructs. There isn’t any “professional level jargon” that declares either that North and South America is a single continent, or that they are two continents. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-people-who-object-to-american-being-used-for-usians-propose/723207.md?page=4)