# what do the Republicans have to negotiate with? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768 "2013-10-09T13:47:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/501 "2013-10-16T17:35:09Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > The policy holder pays only the difference between premium minus the subsidy. The subsidy gets paid to the insurance company. There is no “lump sum” that gets paid to the policyholder.. If he chooses to. Or he can choose to get the handout from the government at the end of the year. In a “lump sum”. Paid to the policyholder. It’s all in your cite. Read it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/502 "2013-10-16T17:40:41Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > If he chooses to. Or he can choose to get the handout from the government at the end of the year. In a “lump sum”. Paid to the policyholder. It’s all in your cite. Read it. “Lump sum” appears no where in my cite. Perhaps you should read it again. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/503 "2013-10-16T17:44:38Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > “Lump sum” appears no where in my cite. Perhaps you should read it again. That’s just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/504 "2013-10-16T17:46:28Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Do you have auto insurance? People are required to have auto insurance as a condition of driving on public roads. They can avoid this by not driving on public roads. People are required to purchase insurance if they are alive. They can avoid this by dying. Any attempt to equate these two things is nonsensical and disingenuous. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/505 "2013-10-16T17:47:59Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > People are required to have auto insurance as a condition of driving on public roads. They can avoid this by not driving on public roads. Yes, because not driving on public roads is such a PRACTICAL way of getting around … :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/506 "2013-10-16T17:48:18Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s just stupid. You quoted “lump sum” from my cite. “Lump sum” is clearly not in my cite. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/507 "2013-10-16T17:51:56Z")
Persons not constrained by decorum, civility, or bi-partisan comity are invited to my Pit thread to celebrate the crushing defeat of the Forces of Darkness. BYOD. Clothing optional, but pics or it didn’t happen. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/508 "2013-10-16T17:53:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You quoted “lump sum” from my cite. “Lump sum” is clearly not in my cite. I didn’t quote “lump sum” from your cite. I quoted “lump sum” from your post. Which you quoted from my cite. Keep up. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/509 "2013-10-16T17:53:19Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Yes, because not driving on public roads is such a PRACTICAL way of getting around … :rolleyes: And yet the complaint about voter ID is that people don’t have driver’s licenses because they don’t drive. A model of consistency. Many people do not own vehicles and rely on public transportation. Those people do not have auto insurance. Rolleyes right back at you. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/510 "2013-10-16T17:54:17Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Do you have auto insurance? As has been pointed out many, many times on this board, the analogy is gloriously inapt. Millions of people legally don’t buy auto insurance, because they don’t have a car. If you don’t want to buy healthcare and not pay a penalty, your only option is to stop breathing. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/511 "2013-10-16T17:55:35Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I didn’t quote “lump sum” from your cite. I quoted “lump sum” from your post. Which you quoted from my cite. Keep up. Well now, all you have to do to be correct is find it in my cite. Your cite is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/512 "2013-10-16T17:57:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Millions of people legally don’t buy auto insurance, because they don’t have a car. And currently there are millions of Americans who don’t have health insurance because they have no health to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Donald\_Rump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Donald\_Rump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donald_Rump)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/513 "2013-10-16T17:58:16Z")
[quote=“Bone, post:504, topic:670768”] People are required to purchase insurance if they are alive. They can avoid this by dying. QUOTE] Can we just extend the list a bit? They can avoid purchasing insurance by: - Dying - Moving to another country - Paying a $95 tax penalty ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/514 "2013-10-16T18:00:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But the total “handout expenditure” will be far less, because of those previous (and massive) “hidden handouts” in the form of free emergency room care for the uninsured that boosted our bills. Just like I said. > > The ACA = less money going out in handouts. A very conservative proposition. This may or may not prove to be true. Your assuming that everyone who goes, or would be going, to the emergency room will now have insurance. I agree that the costs for that subset of people will be reduced. What we don’t know is if the costs associated with giving people who wouldn’t have had it health insurance will be greater or less than the cost for those people who would be going to the emergency room. An extreme example to make my point: if ten people are accessing healthcare via emergency rooms, obviously that cost would be less than providing said insurance to 30 or 50 million people. And that’s without the cost of the healthcare they’d be getting with their new-found insurance. LIke I said, your assumption may be correct, but it is an unknown. And even if you are wrong there is value to people having healthcare. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/515 "2013-10-16T18:02:36Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Well now, all you have to do to be correct is find it in my cite. Your cite is wrong. Because your cite has to use exactly the same wording as mine in order for me to prove it, right? This is just getting stupider and stupider. Does your cite show that the policyholder may choose to get all of the government handout for the year, at the end of the year, paid to himself (and not to the insurance company)? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/516 "2013-10-16T18:03:02Z")
> [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Yes, because not driving on public roads is such a PRACTICAL way of getting around … :rolleyes: Are you really not aware of tens of millions of Americans do not own cars and use public transportation? Yeesh. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/517 "2013-10-16T18:04:28Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > And currently there are millions of Americans who don’t have health insurance because they have no health to begin with. Can you possibly remold this into something that makes a salient point? Or just a discernible one? I don’t ask for much. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/518 "2013-10-16T18:05:08Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This may or may not prove to be true. Your assuming that everyone who goes, or would be going, to the emergency room will now have insurance. I agree that the costs for that subset of people will be reduced. What we don’t know is if the costs associated with giving people who wouldn’t have had it health insurance will be greater or less than the cost for those people who would be going to the emergency room. An extreme example to make my point: if ten people are accessing healthcare via emergency rooms, obviously that cost would be less than providing said insurance to 30 or 50 million people. And that’s without the cost of the healthcare they’d be getting with their new-found insurance. LIke I said, your assumption may be correct, but it is an unknown. And even if you are wrong there is value to people having healthcare. Yes, we don’t know all this for sure. From what I’ve read, the savings will be greater than the extra expenditures. But we’ll see. And even that will be hard to tell, considering that other factors are in play that could raise and lower health care prices. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/519 "2013-10-16T18:05:36Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Does your cite show that the policyholder may choose to get all of the government handout for the year, at the end of the year, paid to himself (and not to the insurance company)? No. It does not. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/520 "2013-10-16T18:07:54Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > No. It does not. Yes, it does. As in “If the amount of advance credit payments you get for the year is less than the tax credit you’re due, you’ll get the difference as a refundable credit when you file your federal income tax return.” If you choose not to get any “advance credit payments” then at the end of the year you get a lump sum payment of the whole handout. Payable to you. From the federal government. You really gotta learn how to read your cites. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768.md?page=27)