# what do the Republicans have to negotiate with? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768 "2013-10-09T13:47:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/81 "2013-10-09T19:22:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Sure–I’m talking not about what they could have done, but what they still could do. True, but I think it’s useful to keep in mind what has gone before. The ACA was drafted, committeed, debated, conferenced, voted, signed, scrutinized, approved, and enacted the same as any other law. This was not imposed on Republicans by some outside power. At some point you must accept that you’ve lost. If shutting down the government fails to get it (effectively) repealed, what will they try next? And if this law can be attacked with scorched-earth tactics, what law on the books can’t? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/82 "2013-10-09T19:24:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I probably wouldn’t have started this. But once it has started, Republicans either have to win _something_ or be finished politically. So I approve them holding out now. “something”? They have to win something? Why? Just because? Why _must_ the republicans win? Is that in the constitution? Again, they cannot come to terms with the fact that they lost. They should deal with their emotions on their own time, and stop holding the government hostage while they work through the stages of grief on Obamacare. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/83 "2013-10-09T19:26:16Z")
Boehner: “This isn’t some damn game.” IOW, no, he _doesn’t_ need “points on the board”. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/84 "2013-10-09T19:31:54Z")
> [@JustBecause14](#): > > All spending bills must originate in the House of Representatives, which means that Congressmen there have a right to decide whether or not they want to spend money on a particular government activity. There’s a couple more steps after that, as you must know as a Constitutional scholar. Steps of equal significance, with other people with equal right to decide what government money ought to be spent on, people who are responsible to the voters who put them in office to do just that in accordance with the voters’ wishes. You may not that there are more of the latter than the former, and that the voters’ wishes are far more directly represented by their views than by the former’s, and that the party controlling the House themselves represent only a minority of the people they purportedly serve. So, given that, who’s in the right? :dubious: > [@](#): > > Whether ObamaCare is good, bad or indifferent is a matter of opinion. But it is a matter of fact that members of the House of Representatives have a right to make spending decisions based on their opinion. You speak only of rights. Where do they have any _responsibilities_, in your worldview? To whom? ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/85 "2013-10-09T19:35:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I probably wouldn’t have started this. But once it has started, Republicans either have to win _something_ or be finished politically. So I approve them holding out now. You’re offering the Democrats the possibility of the Republicans being finished politically…and expect them to give in? You’ve just offered them as great an incentive to hold out as the Republicans have! Okay, how about a swap? Repeal Obamacare…and the Republican Party disbands. See, I’m negotiating! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/86 "2013-10-09T19:37:33Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > We are compelled to take that risk because the constitution permits it. You know, suicide is legal in every State (I think, though I could be wrong - might be there’s some backwards law somewhere that never got repealed). It is fully allowed by the law. You will not get into legal trouble for trying to kill yourself (unless in doing so you endanger others). The fact that it’s not forbidden doesn’t on its own \*compel \*you to give it a shot. Pun fully and shamelessly intended. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/87 "2013-10-09T19:40:37Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > You just cannot admit that the GOP, factually, is lying about one or both parts of this can you. I don’t see any lies, no. > [@](#): > > They are making two concurrent arguments that contradict each other, and you cannot bring yourself to admit that, factually, both arguments cannot be true at the same time. They can. The so-called “default” can be no big deal, and yet may cause an irrational panic. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/88 "2013-10-09T19:41:39Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > “something”? They have to win something? Why? Just because? Because they don’t want to commit a political suicide. I know you’d like them to. But they just don’t wanna. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/89 "2013-10-09T19:42:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If I say to you, “Give my union a pay raise, or we’ll strike,” is that negotiation or extortion? I’ve never actually been in a union. Is it customary for union members on strike to continue to be paid and still have access to the company gym? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/90 "2013-10-09T19:43:15Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > You’re offering the Democrats the possibility of the Republicans being finished politically…and expect them to give in? You’ve just offered them as great an incentive to hold out as the Republicans have! I know. Yet you and others here keep pretending that Democrats are risking what they insist is enormous damage to US economy for reasons loftier than “stick it to the Republicans”. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/91 "2013-10-09T19:48:47Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I know. Yet you and others here keep pretending that Democrats are risking what they insist is enormous damage to US economy for reasons loftier than “stick it to the Republicans”. Again, if you are going to argue that Democrats have to offer a fig leaf to Republicans so that Republicans can claim they won on something/save some face/not have self-esteem issues; what, precisely, are Republicans prepared to do to make Democrats feel good about themselves? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/92 "2013-10-09T19:50:16Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Because it won’t stop there. They’ll make more and more demands each time this comes up until they have their way 100%. There’s a reason that police don’t give in to hostage taker’s demands. It only encourages the behavior. We do not want this behavior to be encouraged. You wouldn’t want the democrats to do this same thing when they run the house would you? I don’t think that’s much of a concern. This is not new. It’s been done something like 17 years in the past 50 years or so. It’s part of the process. It’s an attempt to force negotiations with someone who doesn’t want to. In this case, Obama and Reid. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/93 "2013-10-09T19:51:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Because they don’t want to commit a political suicide. I know you’d like them to. But they just don’t wanna. But they _have_. And they’re taking a lot of innocents with them too. If they need to feel like they’ve “won” something, well then, what the fuck would that be? The few who’ve dared talk openly admit they have no idea what that would even be. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/94 "2013-10-09T19:53:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Again, if you are going to argue that Democrats have to offer a fig leaf to Republicans so that Republicans can claim they won on something/save some face/not have self-esteem issues; what, precisely, are Republicans prepared to do to make Democrats feel good about themselves? Democrats (at least judging from this board) already feel pretty good about themselves. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/95 "2013-10-09T19:53:53Z")
> [@This\_Just\_In\_2](#): > > Perhaps this concession or something like it will be negotiated once the government is funded. > > You have to look at the bigger picture. If the democrats allow the republicans to push their agenda this way - then it will soon become the established norm in this country that the party that controls congress will push their agenda through each time a fiscal bill comes up by threatening the defunding or default of the government. > > Regarding this, realize that congress already approved the programs for this budget - they are now just not funding it. If they want to close parks they should put a bill forward to close parks, not just cut all funding to parks. And so on for all the ‘non essential’ programs. If you want to avoid debt ceilings, put forward bills that cut programs enough so that we don’t hit the current ceiling. But they are not doing that. > > Also, the republicans will not control congress forever. Gerrymandering makes them look safe for the time being but the Dems controlled it for almost the entire 20th century and things will change someday. So if Republicans were not short sighted they would realize that establishing this type of governance will come back to haunt them too. There is a risk in that, yes. But this is what happens when one party forces through a piece of legislation against 100% of the opposing party. Not only do they feel no authorship, but it was forced down their throats. Add that to the belief that there are real problems with both the law and its implementation, and here we are. And do you really think the Dems would consider the changes the Reps want if they’re not pulled to the negotiating table by their ears? The way the bill was passed strongly suggests “no”. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/96 "2013-10-09T19:54:12Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > But they _have_. Only if they capitulate. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/97 "2013-10-09T19:55:47Z")
“The changes the Reps want” are simply “Kill the whole thing”. And you want that to be taken seriously? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/98 "2013-10-09T19:57:23Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Only if they capitulate. What part of “You guys already had ample chance to persuade the American people and you fucking _failed_” are you denying? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/99 "2013-10-09T19:57:35Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > “The changes the Reps want” are simply “Kill the whole thing”. And you want that to be taken seriously? Not according to the bills that the House passed. Unless you think that postponing the $95/year fine for one year and removing subsidies from Congressmen and their staff is gonna “kill the whole thing”. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/100 "2013-10-09T19:59:24Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > There is a risk in that, yes. But this is what happens when one party forces through a piece of legislation against 100% of the opposing party. Not only do they feel no authorship, but it was forced down their throats. Add that to the belief that there are real problems with both the law and its implementation, and here we are. > > And do you really think the Dems would consider the changes the Reps want if they’re not pulled to the negotiating table by their ears? The way the bill was passed strongly suggests “no”. This is ridiculously untrue. It was not passed over “100% opposition” and the Republicans got 161 amendments included in the final bill. > **[Urgent Care Center & Walk in Clinic in Waltham MA |AFC Doctors Express...](https://www.doctorsexpresswaltham.com/)** > > AFC Doctors Express Urgent Care in Waltham MA is an urgent care center & ER alternative walk in clinic serving Waltham, Weston, Newton, Concord, & [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768.md?page=6)