# what do the Republicans have to negotiate with? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768 "2013-10-09T13:47:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/141 "2013-10-09T20:52:30Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > More insane bullshit. If they capitulate ON THIS FUCKING HORRIBLE TACTIC, but stand their ground ON THEIR PRINCIPLES, then they’ll just be back to square one, which is negotiating like a decent human being instead of like a puppy-killing extortionist. Wrong. Any Republican who votes to humiliate the party by capitulating to Democrat intransigence right now is going to have extremely hard time getting re-elected. Guaranteed. And they know it. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/142 "2013-10-09T20:53:20Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Ahem. If all these millions have such a positive experience with it, then you’d sweep the country!..But you’'re not willing to wait and see how it works in the real world. Of course I am. But the only way to find that out is to try it - \*in \*the real world, not in yours. > [@](#): > > And keep in mind, the law as passed was—in fact—flawed. Obama has even changed it himself. So? What law \*is \*perfect? This one needed a public option and a transition to single payer, to name just the major flaws with it. That’s freely granted. But at some point a responsible adult must stop making excuses, take what can be taken, try it, and fix the problems as they come up. > [@](#): > > No. They’re happy to wait and see how it does. So happy they’re willing to cause endless damage and kill their own electoral prospects trying to stop it. :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Right now we have a law in constant flux Oh no, it was passed long ago, even ruled constitutional. Nothing’s in flux except public perceptions, as more and more people begin to see through your guys’ load of lies. > [@](#): > > Funny that you’re so confident about the positive effects of the law yet so reluctant to let the law in practice determine if it’s good or bad and in what ways. That makes no sense at all, unsurprisingly. Of course we want it implemented. The question is what rationalizations you’ll come up with to sabotage it. And if that’s what you’ve got left, then the only remaining step is for you to realize how comprehensively you’ve fucked up and how dishonorably and self-damagingly you’ve lost. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/143 "2013-10-09T20:53:53Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Exactly–they’re asking for a CLEAN, by which you mean “none of their conditions attached,” CR. In other words, they’re asking for NOTHING except for congress to do its job. The job of Congress is to legislate. I haven’t seen anywhere in Congress’ job description, in the Constitution or otherwise, that the bills Congress passes must have nothing attached. Can you point me to such a rule? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/144 "2013-10-09T20:54:31Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > That is not a problem with the bills the house sent to the Senate. It’s a simple and small concession to delay one aspect of Obamacare for one year. And what small concession are the Republicans willing to make to get it? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/145 "2013-10-09T20:54:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Any Republican who votes to humiliate the party That ship has already sailed, hasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/146 "2013-10-09T20:55:24Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > That ship has already sailed, hasn’t it? Not unless they capitulate. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/147 "2013-10-09T20:57:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > To quote someone else, this isn’t a damn game. What I’m afraid of is twofold: > > 1. that our country will be taken over by, in Terr’s words (roughly paraphrased), the puppy-killing extortionists in the Tea Party; and Fair enough. But you do realize that not everyone share’s your concern, right? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > 1. that removing the individual mandate will cause important, if flawed, HC reform to unravel. I doubt it. It’s just a year. And during that year there’s already a reduced penalty, just $95. Conversely, we’d possibly be able to see other things, negative unintended consequences we couldn’t anticipate. If so, wouldn’t it be better to have moved into this gently rather than jumping in with both feet? Obama himself has already changed the law or slowed its implementation, why not this one thing the Reps are asking for? Not that I don’t know the answer. It’s the same reason that Reid and team won’t entertain removing the exemptions they were given. Tell me, do you support congress not having to participate in Obamacare? If so, why? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/148 "2013-10-09T20:57:36Z")
The humiliation is already real, and totally self-inflicted. Their approval rating is already lower than head lice. What room for even more humiliation is there? And, more to the point, who is responsible for it? Yes, I know, anybody but your own damn selves, right? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/149 "2013-10-09T20:59:07Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > That seems like fairly good ground for suggesting that Obama’s legacy is more on the mind of, at least, those pundits, than his. Yours too. Apparently now mine. I don’t think that is true at all. I think that nay President is greatly interested in his own legacy. No one has as much stake in it as he does. That’s just the way it is. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/150 "2013-10-09T20:59:37Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > The humiliation is already real, and totally self-inflicted. You just don’t understand that not everyone thinks like you do. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/151 "2013-10-09T21:01:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Wrong. Any Republican who votes to humiliate the party by capitulating to Democrat intransigence right now is going to have extremely hard time getting re-elected. Guaranteed. And they know it. Your only evidence to back up your guarantee is your worry about increased estrogen levels among the men that do it. It’s an idiotic misogynistic concern you have based on superstition and nothing else. You should be ashamed for repeating the claim, much less calling it a guarantee. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/152 "2013-10-09T21:02:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > To quote someone else, this isn’t a damn game. What I’m afraid of is twofold: > > 1. that our country will be taken over by, in Terr’s words (roughly paraphrased), the puppy-killing extortionists in the Tea Party; and > 2. that removing the individual mandate will cause important, if flawed, HC reform to unravel. So you’re afraid of a scenario where Republicans get what they want? That’s a good reason for them to continue then, no? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/153 "2013-10-09T21:03:31Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Endless repetition does not make a falsehood true. _As you fucking well know_ :dubious:, the bill was in debate for a year and a half (arguably since 1912 for that matter), it was available for download by anyone who gave a shit, and it was even shorter than Sarah Palin’s "auto"biography. Now cut the shit, please. > > That was directed only at people who weren’t interested in finding out the non-Fox truth, but will have to be shown, as is now happening despite their hysterical fear. IOW the willfully ignorant. Know anybody like that? HA! You’re actually defending congressmen voting for bills they haven’t read? I love it. And as you should know, you need to read the FINAL bill, as things are being changed constantly. But I do so appreciate you raising your hand and defending Pelosi’s dereliction of duty/stupidity here. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/154 "2013-10-09T21:07:50Z")
I saw a Democrat on the floor of the House distill it down thusly: “We want to blow up your house.” “No.” “Then, can we blow up the top floor?” “No.” Then, can we just blow up the bedroom?" “No.” “Waaaah! Why won’t you negotiate with us!!!” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/155 "2013-10-09T21:11:50Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > HA! You’re actually defending congressmen voting for bills they haven’t read? Wrong again, not surprisingly. If they didn’t read it any more than you did, it’s their own damn fault as much as it’s yours. They have no more excuse than you do. It’s irresponsible of you, but more so of them. What better thing did they have to do with their time in that year and a half? What better thing did YOU have? You’ve probably spent more time on this board denouncing something you are proudly ignorant of than it would have taken to remove said ignorance. > [@](#): > > Pelosi’s dereliction of duty/stupidity here. Still wrong, but pointless to try to explain to you. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/156 "2013-10-09T21:13:58Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > HA! You’re actually defending congressmen voting for bills they haven’t read? I love it. And as you should know, you need to read the FINAL bill, as things are being changed constantly. But I do so appreciate you raising your hand and defending Pelosi’s dereliction of duty/stupidity here. Nah, who is the party with the dereliction of duty and stupidity is noticed also by Republicans. > **[Republicans shrug off debt ceiling as economic organizations plea for swift...](https://www.nydailynews.com/2013/10/08/republicans-shrug-off-debt-ceiling-as-economic-organizations-plea-for-swift-resolution/)** > > WASHINGTON — With stocks tanking and the world watching, President Obama tore into House Republicans Tuesday, warning they were risking economic catastrophe by refusing to hike the nationR… > [@](#): > > In response, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) slammed hard-liners in his party in an emotional plea for compromise. > > “To think that we were going to repeal Obamacare, which would have required 67 Republican votes, of course, was a false premise,” McCain said, noting polls showing rising disapproval of congressional Republicans. > > “And I think it did the American people a great disservice by convincing them that somehow we could.” ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/157 "2013-10-09T21:14:26Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You just don’t understand that not everyone thinks like you do. Oh, I understand that very well. This is the Fighting Ignorance board, after all. I’m well aware of how proud some are of their ignorance. If you have another way to think that you’d like to explain to us, one that isn’t based on fear and tantrums and lying and pride in one’s own ignorance, please expound. Go right ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/158 "2013-10-09T21:16:39Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > If you have another way to think that you’d like to explain to us, one that isn’t based on fear and tantrums and lying and pride in one’s own ignorance, please expound. Go right ahead. LOL. I have. You refuse to understand. Instead you try, feebly, to insult me. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/159 "2013-10-09T21:17:44Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nah, who is the party with the dereliction of duty and stupidity is noticed also by Republicans. Some Republicans. McCain has stopped being relevant a long time ago. Right about the time he lost the race for President. He’s the Al Gore of Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/160 "2013-10-09T21:19:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The “Dems” are asking for a clean CR. And not getting it. That’s, of course, absurd. The Dems are asking for nothing at all, they just want the government funded. The GOP is asking for an existing law to be damaged or else they’ll keep the government from being funded. Your position is simply goofy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768.md?page=9)