# what do the Republicans have to negotiate with? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 9, 2013, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768 "2013-10-09T13:47:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/161 "2013-10-09T21:22:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > LOL. I have. You refuse to understand. Instead you try, feebly, to insult me. +1. It’s pretty damn funny that the one who accuses the other side of “tantrums and lying and pride in one’s own ignorance” is the only one unable to comprehend that other’s may have a different point of view and is the one having a tantrum, obliquely (cowardly?) insulting two posters. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/162 "2013-10-09T21:23:30Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > That’s, of course, absurd. > > The Dems are asking for nothing at all, they just want the government funded. They want the GOP to pass their bill. Not the bill GOP wants to pass. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/163 "2013-10-09T21:23:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > You just don’t understand that not everyone thinks like you do. Well, you have to explain why Republicans like McCain and many others do not think like you. [http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/09/30/2698471/republicans-against-the-shutdown/](http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/09/30/2698471/republicans-against-the-shutdown/) > [@](#): > > The Old-School Conservatives > > Former Sen. Bob Bennett (R-UT): Bennett penned an op-ed recounting his own experience with a shutdown back in the 90s. “There’s a lesson here for those who think that shutting down the government will force President Obama’s hand on Obamacare,” Bennett concluded. “The best way to help him put that aside and regain his stature as a leader would be to give him an opportunity similar to the one Gingrich gave Clinton… I’ve seen this movie before, and I know how it comes out.” > > Sec. of Defense and former Sen. Chuck Hagel (R) “This is an astoundingly irresponsible way to govern.” > > Former Utah Gov. John Huntsman (R): “Republicans know it is a loser for them.” > > Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush: “So as we get closer to these deadlines, there needs to be an understanding of that, or politically it’s quite dicey for the Republican Party.” > > Bruce Josten of the U.S. Chamber Of Commerce: “It is not in the best interest of the U.S. business community or the American people to risk even a brief government shutdown that might trigger disruptive consequences or raise new policy uncertainties washing over the U.S. economy.” > > Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney: “We’re more effective tactically not to use a shutdown of some kind to pursue the … anti-Obamacare objective. I don’t think that will be as effective.” > The Conservative Pundits > > Matt Dowd: “Everybody is going to lose when the government shuts down. Nobody is going to think better about either party,” Dowd warned. “Republicans will lose more in the course of this if this continues over time.” > > David Frum: “All in all, it’s hard to see any positive outcome emerging for Republicans from this confrontation. Yet the party is charging forward anyway…. Even when pressed to do something overwhelmingly likely to end in disaster, as this shutdown looks likely to do for Republicans, the party has no way to stop itself. It stumbles into fights it cannot win, gets mad, and then in its anger lurches into yet another fight that ends in yet another loss.” > > Doug Holtz-Eakin: Holtz-Eakin says that Republicans have “put themselves in a corner” and that their strategy won’t work. “The public budget debate has been hijacked by a vociferous minority of activist conservatives aligned with a number of outside activist groups led by the likes of Sen. Ted Cruz and former Sen. Jim DeMint,” he wrote in an op-ed against the shutdown approach. > > Charles Krauthammer: Krauthammer deemed his fellow GOPer’s approach to defunding Obamacare misguided, going so far as to call them the “suicide caucus.” > > Matt Lewis: “[T]he defund scheme is (unfortunately) absurd,” Lewis wrote, arguing that it “cannot end well.” > > Rich Lowry: “The strategy seems tantamount to believing that if Republican politicians clicked their wing tips together and wished it so, President Barack Obama would collapse in a heap and surrender on his party’s most cherished accomplishment.” ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/164 "2013-10-09T21:24:17Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > That’s, of course, absurd. > > The Dems are asking for nothing at all, they just want the government funded. The GOP is asking for an existing law to be damaged or else they’ll keep the government from being funded. > > Your position is simply goofy. This is just plainly wrong. They keep asking the house to send them over a clean CR? We’re talking about American politics here, in October, 2013. You? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/165 "2013-10-09T21:24:33Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > LOL. I have. You refuse to understand. Or, perhaps I understand much better than you wish I did. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/166 "2013-10-09T21:25:56Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Well, you have to explain why Republicans like McCain and many others do not think like you. Could be because I am not a Republican. Could be because those quoted don’t have to run for office (except McCain, but then he’d feel better being a Democrat anyway). ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/167 "2013-10-09T21:26:56Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Nah, who is the party with the dereliction of duty and stupidity is noticed also by Republicans. > > [Republicans shrug off debt ceiling as economic organizations plea for swift resolution – New York Daily News](http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/gop-shrugs-debt-ceiling-pleas-economic-leaders-article-1.1480121) McCain is ancient history. I was done with him when he ran for President. It’s sad. He should just retire. Instead he choses to help the Dems at every turn. He and is Boy Wonder, Lindsay Graham should both hit the road. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/168 "2013-10-09T21:26:57Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Or, perhaps I understand much better than you wish I did. You have too high an opinion of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/169 "2013-10-09T21:28:45Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Or, perhaps I understand much better than you wish I did. Or you don’t. There’s always that. And that’s the one I’m going to go with. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/170 "2013-10-09T21:30:12Z")
Very thoughtful responses there, gentlemen. :rolleyes: Quite convincing. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/171 "2013-10-09T21:31:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > They want the GOP to pass their bill. Not the bill GOP wants to pass. Oh yeah, about that: > **[Republicans Give Up on Obamacare in Shutdown Fight](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/republican-push-fight-over-be-determined/310152/)** > > Matching opinion pieces from Eric Cantor in The Washington Post and Paul Ryan in The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday make one thing crystal clear: The reason the government has been shut down for nine days is because... > [@](#): > > Matching opinion pieces from Eric Cantor in The Washington Post and Paul Ryan in The Wall Street Journal on Wednesday make one thing crystal clear: The reason the government has been shut down for nine days is because Republicans wanted a fight. What that fight was over? Depends on the day. > > As we’ve pointed out, the progression of demands from Republicans prior to passage of a comprehensive government funding bill in the House went like this: Fund government at sequestration levels, plus: > > [ul] > [li]Defund Obamacare[/li][li] Delay the law, repeal an Obamacare-related tax, and end mandatory contraception subsidies[/li][li] Delay the individual mandate in Obamacare, and end health care subsidies for legislators[/li][li] Delay the individual mandate in Obamacare, end health care subsidies for legislators, and then discuss other reforms[/li][/ul] > > You’ll notice a theme! It is a theme that has sort of bobbed along on the surface of the debate over the past nine days, sometimes appearing, usually out of sight. On Tuesday, it got one mention during a Republican press conference about the shutdown from House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, alongside a call for cutting spending on Medicare and other social safety net programs. It is like a dance of the 7 veils, and most of the Republicans are not being told that the demands are looking less and less as the “Bill” the Republicans told the rank and file that they would get from this reckless confrontation. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/172 "2013-10-09T21:33:42Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > McCain is ancient history. Last time I checked he is still a senator, try again. > [@magellan01](#): > > I was done with him when he ran for President. Good thing that many do not think like you, even in Arizona. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/173 "2013-10-09T21:34:53Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Could be because I am not a Republican. You just happen to agree with their base on every issue? > [@](#): > > Could be because those quoted don’t have to run for office (except McCain, but then he’d feel better being a Democrat anyway). No, he’s just slightly more reasonable than the extremists who are currently calling the shots. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/174 "2013-10-09T21:36:13Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Could be because I am not a Republican. Could be because those quoted don’t have to run for office (except McCain, but then he’d feel better being a Democrat anyway). Could it be that you are telling others not to check the link and to see for themselves that the list includes many Republicans in office? ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/175 "2013-10-09T21:39:02Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I don’t think that is true at all. I think that nay President is greatly interested in his own legacy. No one has as much stake in it as he does. That’s just the way it is. I think that’s thoroughly untrue. A President doesn’t, necessarily, have to have any interest in his own legacy. Likely enough they do, because that’s a matter of political perception, and if you’re a politican that doesn’t think about perception then you’re not going to be President. But there’s plenty of actual stuff that a President has the opportunity to do, and I can certainly see a President being more interested in that - especially since a legacy is subject, at least in part, to that anyway. On the other hand, it’s quite literally the job of political pundits to correctly comprehend a President’s legacy. That’s what they articulate; their jobs are reliant on explaining it. They’re paid to talk and argue about that legacy. If they write books about it, again, the level of interest in those books is going to be reflective of how well they’re able to comprehend (or, cynically, manipulate, but that requires knowledge, too) of that legacy. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/176 "2013-10-09T21:41:05Z")
Terr and magellan01, here’s a hint. If your view on those that disagree with you after a 4 page thread is that they ‘refuse to understand’, then maybe your arguments simply aren’t as convincing as you think. That’s significantly more likely than the other side of the argument are all mentally inferior to you. By the way, I think its illuminating that after 4 pages of this, not one answer has been given to the question posed in the OP as to what the GOP is offering on their side of the ‘negotiation’. Besides of course just doing their job and not letting the country default. That’s the only thing anyone has come up with so far. A simple question, what are the republicans willing to put on the table, and so far nothing but ‘not purposely destroying the economy’, silence and some variation of ‘I know you are but what am I?’. Yes positively illuminating. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/177 "2013-10-09T21:45:17Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Could it be that you are telling others not to check the link and to see for themselves that the list includes many Republicans in office? Certainly not the ones quoted in the post. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/178 "2013-10-09T21:46:33Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Terr and magellan01, here’s a hint. If your view on those that disagree with you after a 4 page thread is that they ‘refuse to understand’, then maybe your arguments simply aren’t as convincing as you think. There is no way I expected to convince a bunch of leftists of anything. They are usually quite impervious both to logic and to facts. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/179 "2013-10-09T21:53:42Z")
Yeah, see where that attitude takes you in life chief. Its too bad we have to watch an example of that type of thinking playing out in our government right now with the entire economy at stake. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2013, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768/180 "2013-10-09T21:56:45Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Certainly not the ones quoted in the post. There are limits on how much one can quote to in this message board, in any case the point stands. You only avoided dealing with all the Republicans that have to face reelection that do not think that this was a good idea. There is more than just a “bunch of leftists” telling you how dumb this idea was. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-the-republicans-have-to-negotiate-with/670768.md?page=10)