# What do we know about Miss Mary Mack? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [November 6, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646 "2009-11-06T22:10:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/1 "2009-11-06T22:10:17Z")
Had this conversation on the way out the door at work today– Receptionist (handing a stack of papers to the mailroom guy): Can I ask for 50 sets? Me: To see the elephant jump the fence? Mailroom Guy: HuWha? Receptionist: Miss Mary Mack. Mailroom Guy: Who? Me: All dressed in black. Receptionist: You’ve never heard of Miss Mary Mack? Me: Well, he is a boy. This got me to thinking. How old is Miss Mary Mack? Who was she? Where’d she come from? She can’t be like other nursery rhymes that date back to merrie olde England since the elephant doesn’t come back until the 4th of July, right? Any ideas? ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/2 "2009-11-06T23:06:39Z")
Doesn’t she have silver buttons all down her back? ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/3 "2009-11-06T23:09:25Z")
Wikipedia says “Miss Mary Mack” may refer to the USS Merrimack, a Civil war ironclad ship (all “dressed” in black, with silver rivets, get it!?). But there’s no cite, so maybe someone just made that up. ---
**Author:** ![Proudest\_Monkey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/proudest_monkey/32/13257_2.png) [@Proudest\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Proudest_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2009, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/4 "2009-11-06T23:52:53Z")
She was either too young or too lazy to be employed, as she had to ask her mother for the 50 cents to see the elephants doing their fence-jumping. She lived in a place that had multiple high-jumping elephants. India, Africa, or maybe the zoo. Perhaps the circus had come to town – they might have an elephant act despite the animal-cruelty protesters. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/5 "2009-11-07T00:02:56Z")
Of course, in those days the sky was lower. ---
**Author:** ![xnylder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbce88/32.png) [@xnylder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xnylder)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/6 "2009-11-07T00:32:11Z")
You had elephants? The version of the song we sang ran, “…to see the boys \ boys \ boys climb up the fence \ fence \ fence.” Or, in rhythm, _Ti-ti-ti tah tah tah ti-ti-ti tah tah tah_. How do you fit elephants into the meter? (I know, you don’t fit elephants into a meter, you fit them into a yard…) ---
**Author:** ![typoink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@typoink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/typoink)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/7 "2009-11-07T00:43:05Z")
> [@xnylder](#): > > You had elephants? The version of the song we sang ran, “…to see the boys \ boys \ boys climb up the fence \ fence \ fence.” Or, in rhythm, _Ti-ti-ti tah tah tah ti-ti-ti tah tah tah_. How do you fit elephants into the meter? > > (I know, you don’t fit elephants into a meter, you fit them into a yard…) You say “elephants” very quickly, like a lot of kid songs that squeeze goofy polysyllabic words in for effect. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/8 "2009-11-07T00:44:18Z")
In our area it was: To see the ele - funt - funt - funt - funt Jump over the fence - fence - fence - fence - fence ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/9 "2009-11-07T00:46:11Z")
> [@xnylder](#): > > You had elephants? The version of the song we sang ran, “…to see the boys \ boys \ boys climb up the fence \ fence \ fence.” Or, in rhythm, _Ti-ti-ti tah tah tah ti-ti-ti tah tah tah_. How do you fit elephants into the meter? > > (I know, you don’t fit elephants into a meter, you fit them into a yard…) Have you any idea how fast girls can say ‘elephant’ while clapping and slapping each other and themselves with their own hands? ---
**Author:** ![Sonnenstrahl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/82dd89/32.png) [@Sonnenstrahl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sonnenstrahl)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/10 "2009-11-07T00:55:56Z")
We said “To see the boys / Pull down their pants.” Refined young ladies, we were. ---
**Author:** ![rivulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rivulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rivulus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/11 "2009-11-07T01:11:31Z")
I think it’s interesting about the buttons, especially being silver and purple. Buttons used to be an expensive item – and silver and purple represent wealth and power. So, why does little Mary Mack have so many buttons? Enough, by the way, to bribe the elephant to stay with her. (OK, so maybe the elephant is just thinking “oooh, shiny!” Who knows?) And why is she dressed in black? Is she mourning something? Also, at what time period did young ladies have silver buttons down the back? And what was the value of 50 cents in that era? Seems like a lot, back in the day, to watch a circus trick. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/12 "2009-11-07T01:32:14Z")
I’ve been surfing and the internet gives no definitive answers. I have seen a few theories but not with any real documentation. It’s a rhyme written by Mary Ann Holberman. It’s an old folk song describing The Merrimack and it’s an old English memory poem about Mary Queen of Scots. Can someone find the first cite of the lyrics? My google-fu is not at this professional level. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/13 "2009-11-07T01:51:45Z")
For the record, the version I know, in full: > [@](#): > > Miss Mary Mack (Mack, Mack) > All dressed in black (black, black) > With purple buttons (buttons, buttons) > All down her back (back, back) > > She asked her mother (mother, mother) > For fifty cents (cents, cents) > To see the elephant (elephant, elephant) > Jump over the fence (fence, fence) > > He jumped so high (high, high) > He hit the sky (sky, sky) > And didn’t come back (back, back) > 'Til the Fourth of July (July, July) Those of you who know it as boys doing something (climbing a fence or pulling down their pants), what’s the third verse? Neither seems to make sense with hitting the sky. ---
**Author:** ![xnylder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbce88/32.png) [@xnylder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xnylder)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/14 "2009-11-07T02:05:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > For the record, the version I know, in full: > > Those of you who know it as boys doing something (climbing a fence or pulling down their pants), what’s the third verse? Neither seems to make sense with hitting the sky. As for the boys, “They climbed so high, high, high, they reached the sky, sky, sky.” ---
**Author:** ![SylverOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c0e974/32.png) [@SylverOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SylverOne)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/15 "2009-11-07T02:13:10Z")
Evidently I must be living in a cave, because I have _never_ heard this rhyme before in my life. Hmm… this must be my day to learn something new. Thanks~ ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/16 "2009-11-07T02:52:26Z")
The buttons are SILVER. Jeesh! Other than that, I learned the same verse quoted above. I loved Miss Mary Mack and the clapping/snap/snap that went with it. ---
**Author:** ![kapri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kapri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kapri)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/17 "2009-11-07T03:18:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > For the record, the version I know, in full: > > Those of you who know it as boys doing something (climbing a fence or pulling down their pants), what’s the third verse? Neither seems to make sense with hitting the sky. Your version isn’t showing up in the reply window, but it’s interesting. We watched the boys climb up the fence. Then: They climbed so high, high, high, They touched the sky, sky, sky, And they didn’t come back, back, back, Till the Fourth of July ly ly. ---
**Author:** ![kapri](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4491bb/32.png) [@kapri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kapri)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/18 "2009-11-07T03:19:33Z")
Oh, and silver buttons, not purple. This was the version in my neighborhood in southeastern Pennsylvania. ---
**Author:** ![xnylder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/bbce88/32.png) [@xnylder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xnylder)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/19 "2009-11-07T03:22:30Z")
> [@kapri](#): > > Your version isn’t showing up in the reply window, but it’s interesting. We watched the boys climb up the fence. Then: > > They climbed so high, high, high, > They touched the sky, sky, sky, > And they didn’t come back, back, back, > Till the Fourth of July ly ly. I’m sorry, I was trying to save space. Check the post above mine for the full text. ---
**Author:** ![BiblioCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed8c4c/32.png) [@BiblioCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BiblioCat)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646/20 "2009-11-07T03:27:42Z")
Silver buttons here as well, Mid-Atlantic area. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-we-know-about-miss-mary-mack/516646.md?page=2)