# What do you believe about the Kennedy assassination? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 30, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443 "2011-06-30T23:40:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/41 "2011-07-01T17:53:58Z")
Oswald was a CIA asset. A bad one, but an asset nonetheless. Oswald was a patsy who participated and took the fall. Ruby cleaned up the loose end. And yes, I’ve read the Warren Commission report. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/42 "2011-07-01T18:34:36Z")
I’d have said Oswald was alone, if he hadn’t subsequently been shot by Ruby. Nobody’s \*that \*patriotic, IMO. So I think there was likely some sort of (organized crimine) conspiracy, but I don’t think it was a sophisticated one. Not that it would floor me to find Oswald acted alone, mind. I certainly don’t think it was a CIA plot or the like. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/43 "2011-07-01T18:58:54Z")
> [@wheresgeorge04](#): > > I must say, I’m shocked at all the acted alone / Ruby acted out of patriotism votes. I’m shocked at the 14-16% of those who voted otherwise. Well, not shocked exactly. :rolleyes: In Ruby’s case, I doubt “attention-seeking nutbar” translates to “patriotism”. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/44 "2011-07-01T20:31:05Z")
I believe that Oswald and Ruby both acted alone. As far as conspiracies go, I think it’s possible that the FBI may have covered up some things after the fact. Not their involvement in any conspiracy but their lack of awareness that an assassination attempt was going to be made. There was evidence before the fact that would have led to Oswald and prevented the assassination if it had been acted on. I think the FBI may have altered some of the evidence to defend their reputation. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/45 "2011-07-01T20:35:08Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > It was almost 200 years before the death of Meriwether Lewis (Lewis and Clark) was finally seriously questioned. Two hundred years? The cause of his death was investigated at the time it happened and there was a court hearing where witnesses were questioned. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/46 "2011-07-01T21:11:00Z")
> [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > Then you think Ruby killed Oswald on a spur of the moment adrenaline rush and tried to rationalize with his story about saving Jackie from greif? The idea that Ruby acted spontaneously doesn’t hold up because he had been seen at the police headquarters numerous times after Oswald’s arrest, even impersonating a news reporter to access a press conference. Oswald’s assassination was planned. That doesn’t logically follow. I’m aware Ruby was at the police station several times, and impersonated a reporter, but we don’t know what he was thinking. He may have decided to kill Oswald (for whatever reason) if he had the chance, and then cased the place. Or he may have gone there with other motives, and then spontaneously taken the shot when he found he had the opportunity. We just don’t know. The Kennedy assassination was the biggest circus in town, and some people are attracted to that. > [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](#): > > The question is: why? Jack Ruby, described as a low life and a flake by people who knew him, suddenly felt like avenging the death of a president? Throw in the mafia connections (weak or strong as they may be) and the ever-changing story and it just becomes a pretty big pill to swallow. People often do irrational things, and sometimes take extreme action. Rarely when I read the report of a murder do the murderer’s actions make any sense to me. They are usually operating on emotion. I don’t find it a stretch to think that a lone nut shot the president. It would hardly be a [unique event](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_assassination_attempts_and_plots). I can’t completely rule out other possibilities, but there isn’t enough evidence to convince me. I’m also not that surprised that someone shot the alleged assassin. I’ve heard many people describe the Kennedy assassination as a shocking and life-changing moment. When the crowd outside the station heard Oswald had been shot, they burst into applause. There are many theories concerning Kennedy. At most, one of them can be correct. Unlike real evidence, they diverge, instead of supporting a single case. Icidentally, I used to believe Kennedy was the victim of a conspiracy, until I read up a litle more on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/47 "2011-07-01T21:29:50Z")
There’s a very good possibility of a mob hit. The mob helped Kennedy win a very,very narrow victory in Illinois. As President, Kennedy launched a huge investigation into the mob. Robert Kennedy kicked their butts. There was definitely motive for a mob hit. There’s good evidence Oswald had some help that day. Ruby was a known mob guy and he killed Oswald. There’s a lot more that’s covered in the books and documentaries. ---
**Author:** ![Susanann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7ab992/32.png) [@Susanann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susanann)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/48 "2011-07-01T21:59:23Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Two hundred years? The cause of his death was investigated at the time it happened and there was a court hearing where witnesses were questioned. It was almost 200 years before the death of Meriwether Lewis (Lewis and Clark) was finally\*\*\* seriously\*\*\* questioned. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/49 "2011-07-01T22:08:38Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > It was almost 200 years before the death of Meriwether Lewis (Lewis and Clark) was finally\*\*\* seriously\*\*\* questioned. And you are the only true Scotsman on the boards. ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/50 "2011-07-01T22:20:33Z")
I don’t get the argument that Ruby couldn’t be _that_ patriotic to do this or _that_ whatever to do that, and therefore must have had rational reasons to kill Oswald, for instance, being part of a conspiracy. – People who kill famous guys do not necessarily have rational reasons we all can figure our a la Sherlock Holmes; they doesn’t necessarily follow a logic we all can understand from our own viewpoint; not seldom they act out of emotional, personal, fucked up reasons we simply do not understand. That’s probably the most common reason for shooting a famous guy. Of course, I can’t know why Ruby shot Oswald, but the lack of “arm chair detective motif” certainly isn’t a strong argument for his assassination being part of a great mobster conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/51 "2011-07-01T22:40:26Z")
I believe that Oswald killed Kennedy…no question about that. I also think that Oswald was a double agent for the CIA…and that (possibly) Oswald was used by the leader of a faction within the CIA-he may have had somehing to do with the CIA-Mafia plots to murder Fidel Castro. Unfortunately, we will probably never get access to the secret CIA files-they probably have been destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/52 "2011-07-01T22:43:10Z")
> [@davekhps](#): > > 1. It’s been fifty years with no plea-bargains, no deathbed confessions, no post-death memoirs. This, as in all talk of the JFK conspiracy, is the most totally ridiculous argument of them all. If YOU had been in on it, and benefited from it, would you cop to a plea-bargain with so many people swearing that there was no conspiracy? How about a death bed confession? Would you give one to your grieving family? Would you like to guess how many death bed confessions there are concerning murders, and in what circumstances they are given? Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/53 "2011-07-01T22:45:11Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > What does “known Mafia associate” mean? I’m not all that familiar with Jack Ruby’s background, but I doubt he was a made man. Being a nightclub owner, he probably had some financial dealings with them, but that doesn’t make him a member. Perhaps there is a medium between being a made man and having some financial dealings with the Mob that is covered by “known Mafia associate.” Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/54 "2011-07-01T22:45:17Z")
> [@Susanann](#): > > It was almost 200 years before the death of Meriwether Lewis (Lewis and Clark) was finally\*\*\* seriously\*\*\* questioned. You can’t really blame them for the delay. How would they have known back in 1809 what answer you’d be willing to believe in 2011? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2011, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/55 "2011-07-01T23:35:04Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The mob helped Kennedy win a very,very narrow victory in Illinois. Is this the usual sour grapes that the Nixonistas put forward, or is there substantial evidence and court cases and newspaper coverage to back it up? Thought so. > [@ralph124c](#): > > I believe that Oswald killed Kennedy..no question about that. > I also think that Oswald was a double agent for the CIA..and that (possibly) Oswald was used by the leader of a faction within the CIA-he may have had somehing to do with the CIA-Mafia plots to murder Fidel Castro. > Unfortunately, we will probably never get access to the secret CIA files-they probably have been destroyed. I agree with this. As for death bed confessions, there have been plenty of people who supposedly confessed on their death beds. Supposedly Hunt was one of them. [http://www.nowpublic.com/world/jesse-ventura-tru-tv-jfk-deathbed-confession-e-howard-hunt-2729478.html](http://www.nowpublic.com/world/jesse-ventura-tru-tv-jfk-deathbed-confession-e-howard-hunt-2729478.html) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/56 "2011-07-02T00:32:18Z")
While there is no doubt Oswald was shooting at Kennedy I wouldn’t be surprised if the author of Mortal Error was proven correct. The premise of the book is that the final shot was low and from behind due to the entry/exit trajectory and a secret agent accidentally discharged an AR-15 while standing up in the car following the President. What would prove the author right is the metal of the bullet’s jacket and that evidence went missing with the disappearance of the President’s brain. It would have been interesting to see how the lawsuit played out by the agent in question but it was tossed out because it exceeded the statute of limitations. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/57 "2011-07-02T01:16:27Z")
> [@Skald](#): > > Curse you, Diomedes! It’s the Damocles thing you should worry about. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/58 "2011-07-02T03:24:20Z")
My father was an FBI agent in the early 60’s and he is adamantly convinced that the Warren Commission findings are correct. Dad doesn’t talk too much about his days in the FBI, but I think he was loosely involved in the investigation. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/59 "2011-07-02T03:37:04Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > While there is no doubt Oswald was shooting at Kennedy … . Actually, there’s [a semi-plausible theory](http://slog.thestranger.com/slog/archives/2011/06/16/a-new-to-me-theory-about-the-kennedy-assassination-it-was-an-accident) that Oswald might have actually been targeting Connally. He’d written to Connally when he was Secretary of the Navy requesting that the records of his discharge from the Marines be changed to something more favorable. Connally rejected his request. Maybe he blew out JFK’s brains only because he missed his intended target with his final shot. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/60 "2011-07-02T06:06:56Z")
A little perspective for those who think the Mafia killed Kennedy. Back during the Prohibition era, Thomas Dewey was a Special Prosecutor who was agressively going after the New York City Mafia. One of his big targets was Dutch Schultz. He had already brought Schultz to trial twice and said he would keep doing it until he sent him to prison. Schultz decided he had enough. He told other Mafia leaders he was going to have Dewey killed. While some of the other Mafia leaders were also Dewey’s targets, they all told Schultz he couldn’t kill a Special Prosecutor because the government’s retaliation would be devastating. Schultz said he didn’t care. Dewey was coming after him and wouldn’t stop. So the other Mafia leaders felt they had no choice. They killed Schultz. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443.md?page=4)