# What do you believe about the Kennedy assassination? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 30, 2011, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443 "2011-06-30T23:40:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![drastic\_quench](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e36b37/32.png) [@drastic\_quench](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drastic_quench)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/61 "2011-07-02T06:52:26Z")
I just don’t think one man could pull off those shots in so few seconds, at a moving target, with that rifle. I have no idea who else may have been shooting or why. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/62 "2011-07-02T09:57:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Schultz decided he had enough. He told other Mafia leaders he was going to have Dewey killed. While some of the other Mafia leaders were also Dewey’s targets, they all told Schultz he couldn’t kill a Special Prosecutor because the government’s retaliation would be devastating. Yes, that’s one of the reasons I find the mafia theory very unconvincing. To believe it, you also have to assume they had contact with Oswald and could enlist him, and that Ruby would commit murder for them instead of, say, running or going to the authorities. > [@drastic\_quench](#): > > I just don’t think one man could pull off those shots in so few seconds, at a moving target, with that rifle. I have no idea who else may have been shooting or why. It’s been demonstrated there is no problem with cycling the rifle that quickly. I’ve seen a seventy year old do this on TV, and he wasn’t hurrying. In his service in the Marine Corps, Oswald’s best effort was to hit a stationary target 200 yards away 49 times with 50 shots, using rapid fire, earning himself a sharpshooter rating. It’s not a big stretch to think he could hit a slowly moving target 2 times with 3 shots, at an average of a third of the distance. At that range, no leading of the target would be required. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/63 "2011-07-02T10:03:35Z")
I think Oswald was the lone shooter. However, I think he and Ruby had some connection via the Cuban mob - not “the Mafia” in the traditional sense. They never expected Oswald to kill a cop and get himself busted after the deed rather than go into hiding, so Ruby took it on himself to silence him. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/64 "2011-07-02T11:36:01Z")
Lee Harvey Oswald was trying to steal the Jack Ruby. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/65 "2011-07-02T14:43:00Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Yes, that’s one of the reasons I find the mafia theory very unconvincing. To believe it, you also have to assume they had contact with Oswald and could enlist him, and that Ruby would commit murder for them instead of, say, running or going to the authorities. > [@](#): > > It’s been demonstrated there is no problem with cycling the rifle that quickly. I’ve seen a seventy year old do this on TV, and he wasn’t hurrying. In his service in the Marine Corps, Oswald’s best effort was to hit a stationary target 200 yards away 49 times with 50 shots, using rapid fire, earning himself a sharpshooter rating. It’s not a big stretch to think he could hit a slowly moving target 2 times with 3 shots, at an average of a third of the distance. At that range, no leading of the target would be required. Go play [JFK Reloaded](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK:_Reloaded), if you can find a copy anywhere. While I’m not convinced of the absolute accuracy of the simulation (for one, they model the drop on the 6.5 Carcano like it were a thrown softball), you’ll find you have more than enough time to get off 3 shots. (It is tough to get Kennedy the first time you ever play the game though) As a bolt-action rifle shooter, who’s played around with Dealey Plaza in Google Earth, I disagree with the CBS marksmen who could not duplicate the shot. Dealey Plaza just isn’t that big and the Presidential limo wasn’t going that fast. Especially when it had slowed down to pick up the SS agent jumping on the rear of the car. Now if you want to protest that the same guy who blew the shot on General Walker, now turned into a marksman able to follow up his first miss, and make 2/3 hits on a moving target, one a head shot (apologies to GySgt Hartmann), that’s a good point. Still, I think it’s highly likely Oswald did it, and acted alone. Sure were a lot of loose ends though. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/66 "2011-07-02T15:09:16Z")
I’m not sure if you misread my post there. I’m arguing that there was nothing particularly remarkable about Oswald’s shooting in Dealey plaza. > [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Now if you want to protest that the same guy who blew the shot on General Walker, now turned into a marksman able to follow up his first miss, and make 2/3 hits on a moving target, one a head shot (apologies to GySgt Hartmann), that’s a good point. IIRC, wasn’t the Walker shot deflected by a window? ---
**Author:** ![CT\_Damsel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CT\_Damsel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CT_Damsel)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/67 "2011-07-02T21:40:14Z")
::walks out on limb:: I think Mrs. Johnson really, really, really wanted to be First Lady. I do not think her husband knew. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2011, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/68 "2011-07-02T23:56:01Z")
I’ve always believed that Oswald did it alone. The [Posner](http://www.amazon.com/Case-Closed-Gerald-Posner/dp/1400034620/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2) book has pretty much sealed the deal for me. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/69 "2011-07-03T01:02:33Z")
It happened more or less as the Warren Commission said. There might be a few very minor details to quibble over, but Oswald did it on his own and Ruby killed him for whatever reason but covering up a conspiracy wasn’t it. The “conspiracy” only exists because there’s an industry that makes money by selling one. The usual conspiracy claims are so implausible that they don’t withstand even the most minute amount of scrutiny. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/70 "2011-07-03T07:35:53Z")
> [@drastic\_quench](#): > > I just don’t think one man could pull off those shots in so few seconds, at a moving target, with that rifle. I have no idea who else may have been shooting or why. So the people who actually shot Kennedy presumedly set Oswald up as a fall guy. Why didn’t they give him a good rifle? After all the point was to make him look guilty. Shouldn’t they have given him a rifle that could have made the shots he was supposed to make. Why didn’t the real shooter just give Oswald a rifle like the one he was using? That way all the evidence would have matched up. Would have saved them having to switch the bullets too. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/71 "2011-07-03T15:21:31Z")
I’m still waiting for the conspiracy-minded to explain why the CIA/Mafia/domestic crinimal conspirators wanted Oswald to first attempt to assassinate General Edwin Walker (apparently with the same gun that was later used to kill Kennedy). How would Walker’s death have served them? Or does it make a hell of a lot more sense that Oswald was a loose cannon just aching to achieve fame by shooting _some_ perceived big shot? > [@handsomeharry](#): > > This (lack of confessions/tell-alls by anyone involved), as in all talk of the JFK conspiracy, is the most totally ridiculous argument of them all. If YOU had been in on it, and benefited from it, would you cop to a plea-bargain with so many people swearing that there was no conspiracy? How about a death bed confession? Here we come back to the problem of confabulating an immense Conspiracy, employing numerous people, which goes wrongly enough to create holes and doubts for conspiracy theorists, but which somehow doesn’t generate a single credible inside person to come forward and blow it open. But of course. :dubious: If nothing else, there’s too much human vanity for a co-conspirator not to want to get credit. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/72 "2011-07-04T08:05:42Z")
> [@CT\_Damsel](#): > > ::walks out on limb:: > I think Mrs. Johnson really, really, really wanted to be First Lady. I do not think her husband knew. Yeah, but could Oswald really have severed the tree-branch with a mere three shots, sending Mrs johnson plunging to her death? Really? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/73 "2011-07-04T18:18:23Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > It’s the Damocles thing you should worry about. Foolish Flytrap! My sig is about envy, not fear. [Athena & Diomedes.](http://www.philipresheph.com/demodokos/book1/ares.htm) ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/74 "2011-07-04T18:36:32Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Foolish Flytrap! My sig is about envy, not fear. > > [Athena & Diomedes.](http://www.philipresheph.com/demodokos/book1/ares.htm) > [@link](#): > > Diomedes yelled his war cry, lunging > with his own bronze spear and Pallas rammed it home, > deep in Ares’ bowels where the belt cinched him tight. > There Diomedes aimed and stabbed, he gouged him down > his glistening flesh Does your Mother know you like this stuff? Damn fella, chill out. Check on Bacchus down on Beale Street or something. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/75 "2011-07-04T18:38:03Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Foolish Flytrap! My sig is about envy, not fear. > > [Athena & Diomedes.](http://www.philipresheph.com/demodokos/book1/ares.htm) > [@link](#): > > Diomedes yelled his war cry, lunging > with his own bronze spear and Pallas rammed it home, > deep in Ares’ bowels where the belt cinched him tight. > There Diomedes aimed and stabbed, he gouged him down > his glistening flesh Does your Mother know you like this stuff? Damn fella, chill out. Check out the Bacchanalian revelry down on Beale Street or something. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/76 "2011-07-04T19:31:03Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Check out the Bacchanalian revelry down on Beale Street or something. Don’t mention that poncy bastard to me. Even in his Zagreus suit, Bacchus is a god fit only for Welshmen. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/77 "2011-07-04T19:43:24Z")
It is reminiscent of Siegmund and Brunhilde. Bear in mind that he came to a bad end. Come to thing of it, so did she. If I may digress, it is the Perfect German Love Story. Everyone who counts dies. ---
**Author:** ![Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@Swallowed\_My\_Cellphone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Swallowed_My_Cellphone)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2011, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/78 "2011-07-04T22:00:55Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I’m not sure how loosely “conspiracy” should be defined. I wouldn’t be surprised if Oswald had a circle of acquaintances who mouthed off how somebody oughtta shoot that bastard Kennedy. But I don’t think anyone else helped him plan it, or had any knowledge in advance of Oswald’s intent actually to do it. I’m one of the people who voted that he acted alone as well as “domestic conspiracy” for that reason. I don’t think it would have been an organized conspiracy, but I can see it being more like: some guys are hanging around the pub generally talking shit, while Oswald was a weird little twerp on the periphery of the conversation, who heard “Bah, someone oughta kill that jackass” and took it literally. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2011, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/79 "2011-07-05T05:38:31Z")
I was a child when it happened, and anything I know about the actual assassination I learned years afterward, but what I do remember about those two or three days was the level of emotional response all over the country. Crying women borrowing handkershiefs from total strangers on the street so they could go into a church and pray. Everything seemed to come to a stop and all the adults I knew seemed a bit stunned. All of that is why I don’t think you need a more involved explanation for Jack Ruby’s murder of Lee Oswald. Caught up in all of that, it would take much for him to decide to take things into his own hands. I’m sure there were others who would have, if they’d had the chance, or if they hadn’t been too rational. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443/80 "2011-07-06T02:26:59Z")
Here’s my problem with the conspiracy theories. Who was behind the conspiracy? The Soviet Union The CIA The Mafia Cuba The far-right wing who thought Kennedy was a Communist LBJ Nixon Fundamentalist Christians who hated the idea of a Catholic President The military establishment who favored expansion in Vietnam White radicals who hated his position on Civil Rights Black radicals who hated his position on Civil Rights The international Jewish conspiracy, just because they’re behind everything. Every one of those theories has its passionate advocates, despite the fact that most of them are completely incompatible, and many of them would have believed that Johnson as President would be even worse for their particular cause than Kennedy as Preisdent. I think that after almost a half-century of people arguing about this, there should be some consensus that would start to coalesce around a single suspect instead of continuing to argue increasingly convoluted theories about how the Mafia/CIA/John Birch Society/Nixon/Johnson et al recruited a left-leaning former Marine to do the hit but backed him up with an unidentified “second shooter” and used a small-time nightclub owner to finish the job. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-about-the-kennedy-assassination/587443.md?page=5)