# What do you believe firmly with zero evidence? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 26, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129 "2022-02-26T00:42:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/261 "2022-03-11T02:37:03Z")
Apple is a Cult. I actually have all the evidence I need. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/262 "2022-03-11T02:44:35Z")
Depends on what you think God means. Do you believe in a personal god, who hears your prayers and has a plan for your life? That is a consciousness, which requires meat. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/263 "2022-03-11T03:06:04Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Is it your assertion that atheists believe in non-Christian gods? That you would even ask this question makes me suspect I’m wasting my time, but I’ll see if I can lay this out for you clearly. As a matter of definition, “atheist” means lacking a belief in any god. It is not inherent in that definition that one does not believe in other supernatural nonsense. Therefore, it is definitionally possible for someone to be both an atheist and believe in supernatural nonsense. Are you with me so far? Now, an atheist might be someone who comes from a cultural background where a religion involving a belief in a god (and accompanying supernatural traditions) is common and yet that atheist has not adopted that belief. I suspect you would be right in saying that a substantial proportion of such atheists don’t have any belief in the accompanying supernatural traditions either. But that is not _inherent_ in their atheism. For example, IME it is not uncommon to come across people who don’t believe in a deity as such but who have some sort of belief there is _something_ spiritual out there, or who think there is _something_ after life. Alternatively, an atheist might be from cultural background where the dominant religion has supernatural beliefs but those beliefs don’t involve a god. So adherents of that religion are all technically atheists, but nonetheless have various supernatural beliefs that may well include an afterlife. ---
**Author:** ![Pavelb1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/439d5e/32.png) [@Pavelb1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pavelb1)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/264 "2022-03-11T03:10:25Z")
I believe there is a generally benevolent higher power that we are not capable of conceiving any more then an ant understands quantum mechanics. I do NOT believe in Hell or a devil or anything like that. The history of the planet and all its species belies any notion that some kind of ‘fairness’ exists. So i certainly don’t believe there’s going to be a fairness imparted for all eternity after life. Besides…some 95% or more of us enjoy the benefits of enslaving and torturing other species and if not that, then you still enjoy the fruits of sweat-shop laborers and if not that you pay taxes to a govt. that is evil as \*\*\*\*. If there’s a traditional heaven…its full of babies, football stitchers who only eat oatmeal…and a vegan dude named Tom who somehow skirted all the pitfalls i listed. Edit: I didn’t realize i was responding to Fear Itself. Sorry Fear…my post probably comes off as kind of a non-sequiter. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/265 "2022-03-11T03:25:32Z")
No worries. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/266 "2022-03-11T06:24:37Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Depends on what you think God means. Do you believe in a personal god, who hears your prayers and has a plan for your life? That is a consciousness, which requires meat. I don’t believe in ANY god. But why does consciousness necessarily require meat? Does advanced AI require meat? ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/267 "2022-03-11T07:57:43Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Why are you answering a question with another question? Because your question was a shambles that could not be honestly answered. My original comment that you responded to was > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > However, there are as many potential definitions of an afterlife as there are people on the planet and a god is not a prerequisite for all of them. The clear implication of which is that individuals can have their own definition of “afterlife” (if they actually do have one). So you asking for an example but _excluding_ an individual’s own definition is nonsensical. Especially so when “atheist” refers to a nebulous “group” of individuals who are only tenously linked by their lack of a belief. It is almost like you think there is some official body that confers a status of validity on beliefs and you are only willing to accept any that come up to that mythical status. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/268 "2022-03-11T08:17:39Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > Especially so when “atheist” refers to a nebulous “group” of individuals who are only tenously linked by their lack of a belief. Exactly which is why I said this: > [@Princhester](#): > > > [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > > > Is it your assertion that atheists believe in non-Christian gods? > > That you would even ask this question makes me suspect I’m wasting my time, but I’ll see if I can lay this out for you clearly. It’s ridiculous to even think I might be asserting that “atheists” believe anything in particular. "Atheist’ is a classification defined by _lack_ of belief in _one_ particular thing. There is no clear commonality, either in theory or in practice, as to what positive beliefs atheists may hold. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 8:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/269 "2022-03-11T08:20:22Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > It’s ridiculous to even think I might be asserting that “atheists” believe anything in particular. "Atheist’ is a classification defined by _lack_ of belief in _one_ particular thing. There is no commonality, either in theory or in practice, as to what positive beliefs atheists may hold. Absolutely, it is pretty infuriating to have to explain this again and again and again. It is like grouping together the people who don’t appreciate jazz and assuming that they must all hate fish as well. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/270 "2022-03-11T08:33:58Z")
What does AI have to do with consciousness? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/271 "2022-03-11T12:30:10Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > That is a consciousness, which requires meat. Is this something you believe firmly without evidence? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/272 "2022-03-11T13:34:40Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I don’t believe in ANY god. But why does consciousness necessarily require meat? Does advanced AI require meat? It doesn’t require meat; but it requires physical computer chips, connectors, power sources. It can’t exist purely in a nebulous metaphorical “cloud” – that cloud doesn’t exist without a whole lot of physically obvious stuff housing it. ETA: The more we find out about the interconnections of roots, fungi, and other life in the soil, the more extensive and complicated those interconnections look. I still have nothing remotely resembling actual evidence for the existence of some sort of, call them “spirits of the hillside” – but there may indeed by something physical there that could house such things. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/273 "2022-03-11T14:42:50Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > And imagine it is even worse for people that died in submarines in wartime. Now that’s a horror movie! [You might like this.](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0276816/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1) Sorry for the minor hijack. ---
**Author:** ![El\_DeLuxo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_deluxo/32/9043_2.png) [@El\_DeLuxo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_DeLuxo)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2022, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/274 "2022-03-11T21:39:04Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Because consciousness requires a brain in meatspace. You _don’t_ know that, though. It’s not an incontrovertible obvious fact, but a materialistic theory concocted by humans, somewhere, that you choose to accept as such because it comforts you on some level. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/275 "2022-03-12T20:47:32Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > It doesn’t require meat; but it requires physical computer chips, connectors, power sources. It can’t exist purely in a nebulous metaphorical “cloud” – that cloud doesn’t exist without a whole lot of physically obvious stuff housing it. I agree that nebulous clouds probably can’t hold sentience, but maybe more complex structures could do so, despite having little in common with our own experience. I wouldn’t categorically rule out the possibility that consciousness could emerge in a substrate entirely made from cosmic strings, monopoles, domain walls and/or textures - the sort of phenomena which probably existed back in the Big Bang era, and may exist in other inflationary volumes. Indeed, we ‘meat-people’ may be a statistical outlier, and represent just a tiny fraction of the possible forms of sentience in the multiverse and in the history of our own cosmos. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/276 "2022-03-12T21:44:53Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > Indeed, we ‘meat-people’ may be a statistical outlier, and represent just a tiny fraction of the possible forms of sentience in the multiverse and in the history of our own cosmos. Indeed, [some might even find us disgusting](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tScAyNaRdQ). ---
**Author:** ![Tripler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripler/32/21807_2.png) [@Tripler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tripler)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/277 "2022-03-12T22:23:11Z")
I have zero evidence, but **strong** suspicions, that the SDMB is trolled by people looking for technical information for nefarious purposes, or investigators doing background checks on our members. Hence, I have _ **doubled down** _ on my caution about what I put on these boards anymore. _“You can’t believe everything you read about everyone on the Internet.”_ - Abraham Lincoln. Tripler I believe I once told one of 'em to go eat his meatloaf. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/278 "2022-03-12T22:34:28Z")
Nonsense, we already have all the info on you we need! 😈 ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/279 "2022-03-13T03:17:37Z")
> [@Love\_Rhombus](#): > > Nonsense, we already have all the info on you we need! 😈 I had this conversation with my right-wing neighbor. I suggested to him he should just get the damn Covid vax and be done with it. He said no way, it modifies your DNA so the government can track you. I said what the fuck, they already do that anyway. (I don’t know if that will really convince any right-winger to just get the damn shot already.) ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2022, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/280 "2022-03-13T12:34:16Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > Are you with me so far? You’re atheist and believe in fairy tales. Whatever floats your boat… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129.md?page=15)