# What do you believe firmly with zero evidence? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 26, 2022, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129 "2022-02-26T00:42:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/121 "2022-03-01T20:32:36Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Not quite a belief but a giant question based on nothing - I sometimes wonder if, in whatever mysterious structure of the universe, all information is recorded and stored.   All information in the universe, past, present, and future, IS recorded. The mysterious structure of the universe where this is all recorded is the entire universe itself. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/122 "2022-03-01T21:07:10Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > That’s interesting, I didn’t hear about that. You could be on to something. It was reported on in July 2001\* \*wait!! Is it thread shitting to offer a cite in a thread about beliefs without evidence? Well, at the risk of offending. > [@](#): > > In response to inquiries from **CBS News** over why Ashcroft was traveling exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines, the Justice Department cited what it called a “threat assessment” by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term. It’s my unfounded belief that there was chatter about using a plane as a guided missile months before 9/11. In fairness to the government, though, what are you going to do - shut down all commercial travel? Indefinitely? > **[Ashcroft Flying High](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ashcroft-flying-high/)** > > Attorney General Travels By Private Jet At Taxpayer Expense ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2022, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/123 "2022-03-01T22:44:11Z")
> [@digs](#): > > Wow, that’s a good job articulating an interesting way of looking at things! And good for me to think about, as an unrepentant Materialist. Thank you! 👋🏽 As for being a Materialist, I hear [![](https://energywavetheory.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/einstein-energy-mass-relation-emc2.jpg) ](https://energywavetheory.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/einstein-energy-mass-relation-emc2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![F.U.Shakespeare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@F.U.Shakespeare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/F.U.Shakespeare)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/124 "2022-03-02T00:46:43Z")
I apologize for continuing this possible hijack, but this is the first I’ve heard the assertion, and am intrigued. The information in the CBS News article says that the other cabinet heads weren’t traveling by private jet. I seriously doubt the Bush administration would have been OK with leaving the Secretaries of State, Defense, etc. open to such purported threats. It sounds to me like Ashcroft was simply caught (as the article puts it) “flying high”, and was covering his ass. FWIW Bush senior’s chief of staff John Sununu committed similar transgressions. Waste? Yes. Keeping 9/11 intel quiet? I’m not convinced. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/125 "2022-03-02T00:58:01Z")
> [@F.U.Shakespeare](#): > > I seriously doubt the Bush administration would have been OK with leaving the Secretaries of State, Defense, etc. open to such purported threats. It’s a fair assertion, but it is at least worth quoting this part of the article: > [@](#): > > The secretaries of State and Defense traditionally travel with extra security on military planes. Now, that doesn’t account for other cabinet members who did indeed still fly commercial. But Sec of State and Defense were already protected. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/126 "2022-03-02T01:08:00Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > > [@Moriarty](#): > > > > I realize that this is the “without evidence” thread, but there’s a pretty famous daily intelligence briefing which Bush received that was entitled “Bin Laden determined to attack within United States” > > Yep, that’s why I think they had to know something was coming. There is evidence that they did know _something_ was coming but not exactly what, when, nor where. Somebody did suspect how but that intelligence got sat on until after the fact. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/127 "2022-03-02T01:23:31Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > There is evidence that they did know _something_ was coming but not exactly what, when, nor where. And, to reiterate my original point, I believe (without credible evidence) that they planned their response to that “something” before 9/11 actually happened. That is to say, I believe that the US (at the top) already knew that they were going to overthrow the Taliban, and then planned to proceed on to Iraq, before the attacks occurred. > **[BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | US 'planned attack on Taleban'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1550366.stm)** > > The BBC is told that the US was planning military action against Osama bin Laden and the Taleban even before last week's attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/128 "2022-03-02T01:40:03Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > Some places on that spectrum our eyes can’t perceive, but we have developed instruments that can _see_ those places. Some animals, insects, etc., can see frequencies that we cannot. > > What we call “supernatural” are places along a spectrum of (let’s call it) “reality” that we can’t perceive with our human body/instrument. To say those things/objects/events don’t exist because humans currently can’t perceive them is the height of anthropocentric narrowness. IMHO it’s an amalgam of arrogance, hubris, and cluelessness. Over the years and especially in modern times, humans have developed technology that enables us to perceive things that humans used to think were “supernatural.” There’s more of that ahead but there will always be things we don’t understand and can’t with our limited human instrument. I love this. I’ve used this same concept to describe why I am a deist, and not an atheist. I believe there is something that has provided order to our existence, and just as we can’t perceive things like quarks and neutrinos, yet science has developed so we know they are present, there must be additional “things” in our environment which our limited senses simply haven’t yet perceived. There is clearly a reality that exists beyond our perceptions, which are inherently limiting. Our eyes limit our vision, our ears limit our hearing, etc. What are we missing? You can call it the supernatural, or god, or whatever, but it’s absolutely true that “ it’s an amalgam of arrogance, hubris, and cluelessness” to think that humans are even close to complete awareness. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/129 "2022-03-02T01:55:07Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Now, that doesn’t account for other cabinet members who did indeed still fly commercial. But Sec of State and Defense were already protected. And honestly, why is it that cabinet secretaries of the richest and most powerful nation in history are flying commercial to begin with? I’d have no problem at all with them using a smaller personal jet kind of thing. Maybe not a luxury private plane, but certainly government issued planes, maybe. These people are inherently high-valued targets for terrorism or kidnapping, it’s not an abuse of power to acknowledge that, and take steps to prevent that. Stop being so cheap, America! ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/130 "2022-03-02T01:55:23Z")
I am certain that in the 1930’s the Supreme Court of the United States of America discovered “expansive” readings of federal authority, as opposed to the strict federalism that had been long-established judicial practice, not because of fears of “packing the court” but because Roosevelt had J. Edgar Hoover amass blackmail files on all the justices and told them to start finding whatever rationalization it took to uphold federal authority. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/131 "2022-03-02T02:02:04Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > I guess there is something there, as scientists are so worried about the [information paradox] > ([Black hole information paradox - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole_information_paradox)) that seems to happen when things fall into black holes. Why would they worry about information being lost if it is not recorded somehow in the first place? It’s more the case that if information truly can be destroyed, then large parts of quantum mechanics must be wrong, in which case we have no idea how the universe works. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/132 "2022-03-02T02:07:57Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > because Roosevelt had J. Edgar Hoover amass blackmail files on all the justices and told them to start finding whatever rationalization it took to uphold federal authority. I believe that J. Edgar Hoover was, besides being brilliant, a closeted homosexual who was obsessed with the sexual proclivities of other people and kept private files on such matters in his office. His longtime #2, Clyde Tolson, was also his romantic partner, and saw to it that these materials were destroyed when Hoover died. They, of course, detailed all the threesomes that JFK had, but they also confirmed the affairs for Roosevelt and LBJ. Eleanor Roosevelt was not gay, but was celibate after bearing children. Also, President James Buchanan was gay. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/133 "2022-03-02T02:13:22Z")
> [@eburacum45](#): > > If there were millions of sentient species up there, l’d expect them to have established some kind of ‘Interstellar Internet’ by now - they would probably be deliberately targeting our world with invitations to log-on Maybe most sentient species find other things to do, and aren’t all that interested in establishing an interstellar internet. (If that’s even possible. The speed-of-light issue seems to present a sizeable problem.) We don’t have a whole lot of known samples to go by (especially depending on the definition of “sentient”; and if we’re using definitions that include a lot more on this planet than just humans, then only one of the sample seems remotely interested in doing such a thing, and not all members even of our own species are.) > [@XT](#): > > an interstellar civilization could essentially spread to encompass a galaxy the size of ours in a couple million years. You don’t need to travel at the speed of light to colonize other star systems. > > The fact no one appears to be doing that, especially in the case of this galaxy, probably means that there simply aren’t any civilizations in this galaxy with the technology to try, at least not ones several million years old. > > ETA: And, without evidence, I believe that means it’s up to us in our neck of the woods. Do civilizations last a couple of million years? I suppose alien ones might; but they wouldn’t be much like ours. Our entire species hasn’t lasted a couple of million years yet, let alone any particular civilization. I doubt you’d have “an” interstellar civilization. Even if some species developed a civilization capable of the sort of interstellar travel that could settle large numbers of other planets, I’d expect that to result in a lot of different civilizations; some of which wouldn’t be expansionist and would proceed to stay home, some of which would turn back towards the areas already settled instead of travelling outward, and some of which would break down entirely. And, over a couple of million years, I wouldn’t expect all the settlements to remain the same species. > [@TRC4941](#): > > > [@ratatoskK](#): > > > > I believe that God does not exist… because there is no evidence. > > And I believe the opposite. > [@kayaker](#): > > In my experience: > > I believe that God does not exist… because there is no evidence. > I believe that God does exist . . . despite there being no evidence. > [@mbh](#): > > When I read about quantum mechanics, I believe that Coyote or the Monkey King must be running the universe. I believe, with zero evidence, that some of the Small Gods are real. Not the TriOmniPotent, who I definitely don’t believe in. But the Somebody who imbues this hillside. And, quite possibly, Coyote and some others. > [@Lumpy](#): > > in which case we have no idea how the universe works. I strongly suspect that that’s true. However, I am not a physicist; so I can’t claim to have evidence for it. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/134 "2022-03-02T02:21:58Z")
> [@pullin](#): > > It’s apparent there is a strong correlation between wealth and favorable treatment by courts. Whether in sentencing, arrests, perp-walks, or bail – the connection is obvious. I don’t know how much _additional_ consideration from the courts wealth buys, but certainly wealth means hiring lawyers with very good track records, plus being able to hire armies of private investigators and forensic experts. ---
**Author:** ![mordecaiB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mordecaib/32/7725_2.png) [@mordecaiB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mordecaiB)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/135 "2022-03-02T08:48:12Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I believe that J. Edgar Hoover was, besides being brilliant, a closeted homosexual who was obsessed with the sexual proclivities of other people and kept private files on such matters in his office. I’ve never really delved into this, but I thought this was all true. > [@Moriarty](#): > > [BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | US 'planned attack on Taleban'](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1550366.stm) That is one weird article. If I’m parsing it correctly, Uzbekistan and Russia would have sent troops also. That’s quite the strange set of allies. > Mr Naik was told that Washington would launch its operation from bases in Tajikistan, where American advisers were already in place. > He was told that Uzbekistan would also participate in the operation and that 17,000 Russian troops were on standby. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > And, quite possibly, Coyote and some others. I was going to say that I hoped it wouldn’t be Coyote, but looking at the state of the world sometimes makes you wonder if there is a evil trickster in charge. > [@Lumpy](#): > > I don’t know how much _additional_ consideration from the courts wealth buys, but certainly wealth means hiring lawyers with very good track records, plus being able to hire armies of private investigators and forensic experts. I’d actually like to see a study on whether having your own forensics expert testify pays off more often than not. I’ve never been on a jury where any forensics expert has testified, but I can’t help thinking that the main thing going thru my mind would be that the defendant’s expert is being paid for his opinion. It may be tough to shake that from my mind. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/136 "2022-03-02T09:32:26Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I believe that J. Edgar Hoover was, besides being brilliant, a closeted homosexual who was obsessed with the sexual proclivities of other people and kept private files on such matters in his office. His longtime #2, Clyde Tolson, was also his romantic partner, and saw to it that these materials were destroyed when Hoover died. They, of course, detailed all the threesomes that JFK had, but they also confirmed the affairs for Roosevelt and LBJ. > > Eleanor Roosevelt was not gay, but was celibate after bearing children. > > Also, President James Buchanan was gay. Common knowledge, all. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/137 "2022-03-02T12:09:46Z")
Although deemed unfalsifiable and generally poo-pooed in scientific circles, I believe the Many-Worlds interpretation is the correct model of reality. Therefore, I accept all accolades for all the great deeds I’ve done in countless alternate universes for the betterment of mankind. You’re welcome! As for all the terrible deeds I’ve _allegedly_ done to the detriment of mankind in other timelines? Hey, you can’t prove it was me, and I plead the 5th. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/138 "2022-03-02T13:43:48Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Do civilizations last a couple of million years? We have no evidence for this one way or another. I don’t see why a technological civilization with full access to the resources in its star system couldn’t, however. I think the biggest hurdle is to start actually utilizing those resources. At a certain stage though, I think a technological civilization becomes basically immortal. Again, something I believe without much evidence except speculation. > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > I doubt you’d have “an” interstellar civilization. Sure, in the sense that once a technological species start to colonize other star systems and spread out they are going to change and they will certainly lose touch with each other the further away they get. There are ways around that that don’t need superluminal speeds or communications, but those are all speculative as well. And, it’s definitely possible once you start this process the species doing it (and whatever species they take with them) will start to diverge from the originals and from each other. There are ways around this, too, but again, they are speculative. But regardless of genetic drift and such, there should be myriad technological civilizations out there, even if they look vastly different from each other or the original…and yet, we haven’t found any. to date anyway. We could Fermi Paradox this to death, but that seems to be the case. Which means we need to do it ourselves. 🙂 Most of this stuff is the stuff I firmly believe without much if any evidence. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/139 "2022-03-02T15:13:54Z")
> [@mordecaiB](#): > > I was going to say that I hoped it wouldn’t be Coyote, but looking at the state of the world sometimes makes you wonder if there is a evil trickster in charge. I don’t think Coyote’s evil. Amoral, maybe. But I’m not actually well educated on that mythology; have just run into a batch of assorted stories and references in a number of different places. > [@XT](#): > > regardless of genetic drift and such, there should be myriad technological civilizations out there, even if they look vastly different from each other or the original…and yet, we haven’t found any. to date anyway. We could Fermi Paradox this to death, but that seems to be the case. Which means we need to do it ourselves. Maybe it means instead that there are reasons why we shouldn’t, or can’t, do it ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2022, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129/140 "2022-03-02T15:21:13Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Maybe it means instead that there are reasons why we shouldn’t, or can’t, do it ourselves. Could be. But we would only find this out by trying. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-believe-firmly-with-zero-evidence/960129.md?page=8)