# What do you consider a "dive bar"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 11, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624 "2016-09-11T04:12:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/1 "2016-09-11T04:12:04Z")
I don’t drink, but I go to bars fairly often. But I’m there to get a moderate priced steak or wings, or to play Buzztime Trivia. So I hang out at Harry Buffalo, Buffalo Wild Wings, Applebee’s, or Quaker Steak and Lube. I have stopped in a nearby ‘regular’ bar a few times as there are usually people playing Buzztime and it is more fun with competition. The kitchen does not serve until dinner and I am there in the afternoons, so I read a few reviews to see about the food quality and price. Nothing unexpected except one reviewer referred to it as a “bit of a dive bar”. To me a dive is something from an old movie where hard drinking longshoremen hang out and suspicious characters lurk in the shadows, etc. This bar is in a fairly affluent suburb in a strip mall on the main avenue. So what constitutes a “dive bar” to the modern crowd? Dennis ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/2 "2016-09-11T05:01:42Z")
Old, dark, dirty, minimal service. If I’m comfortable there it’s a dive. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/3 "2016-09-11T05:04:18Z")
Previous discussion: > **[Let's come up with a new term now that "dive bar" is completely meaningless](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=730726)** > > So apparently a “dive” bar is anyplace that isn’t TGI Friday’s. People casually recommend bars with words like, “Oh, it’s great. Low on the bro factor, totally divey,” while in the same paragraph using terms like “craft cocktails.” Somehow not being... ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/4 "2016-09-11T12:14:14Z")
Cheap and you get what you pay for. Most likely the only people there all know each other. Your bar is probably only called a dive because it’s in an affluent suburb, and so the patrons don’t know what a real dive looks like. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/5 "2016-09-11T12:14:39Z")
If you step over vomit/shit to reach the urinal, piss, then go back and finish your drink, it’s a dive bar. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/6 "2016-09-11T12:55:14Z")
My cousin Debi’s bar was recently named one of the top 11 dive bars in Phoenix. Go Deb! ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/7 "2016-09-11T13:26:01Z")
“Dive bar” has a fairly restricted meaning the way I use it, and only a very very small handful of bars I’ve ever been in I would consider “dive bars.” If it’s on a Timeout list of “best dive bars,” it is most likely not what I would consider a dive bar. I just saw a recent one of these come around for Chicago, and all the bars that I’ve been to on the list I would just call “normal bars,” not “dives.” If I could imagine Charles Bukowski (or his character Henry Chinaski) hanging out there, it’s probably a dive. If anything fancier than an Old Style is on draft, it’s probably not a dive. If large groups of college-aged kids or just large amount of people not from the neighborhood hang out there, it’s almost certainly not a dive. If you can pass out on the floor and the bartender will direct patrons around you, and then when you wake up, have another shot of vodka waiting for you, that’s almost certainly a dive (true story, though I was the patron being directed to the other side of the bar.) To me, it’s a bare-bones bar, mostly full of middle-aged and older locals; It’s a place where ordering a cocktail will get you a stern look if not a punch in the nose. (OK, some dives will whip up a girly drink or two, but it’s the kind of place that looks like ordering one would get you a punch in the nose.) It should be slightly intimidating on first visit. A dive bar really isn’t a place you travel for; it’s a place you go to out of necessity, because no other place is open at 3 a.m., or because you don’t feel like walking more than two blocks. And then, yeah, you learn the cast of characters and develop an affection for it. The types of bars described as “dives” these days I would probably describe as “dive-ish.” Like kind of going for the aesthetic and character of a true dive, but marketing to a young twenty-and-thirtysomething crowd that wants to get ripped on cheap American lager and Jager shots. ---
**Author:** ![DonLogan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@DonLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonLogan)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/8 "2016-09-11T13:40:36Z")
A place that opens at 8:00am and when you get there at 9:00, there’s already a couple of guys there. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/9 "2016-09-11T13:51:12Z")
> [@DonLogan](#): > > A place that opens at 8:00am and when you get there at 9:00, there’s already a couple of guys there. I was going to say something similar. The place I used to tend bar at opened at 9:00 and at 8:55 people (mainly old men) were banging on the front door. ---
**Author:** ![carlb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carlb/32/5930_2.png) [@carlb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlb)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/10 "2016-09-11T15:00:46Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > “Dive bar” has a fairly restricted meaning the way I use it, and only a very very small handful of bars I’ve ever been in I would consider “dive bars.” If it’s on a Timeout list of “best dive bars,” it is most likely not what I would consider a dive bar. I just saw a recent one of these come around for Chicago, and all the bars that I’ve been to on the list I would just call “normal bars,” not “dives.” > > If I could imagine Charles Bukowski (or his character Henry Chinaski) hanging out there, it’s probably a dive. If anything fancier than an Old Style is on draft, it’s probably not a dive. If large groups of college-aged kids or just large amount of people not from the neighborhood hang out there, it’s almost certainly not a dive. If you can pass out on the floor and the bartender will direct patrons around you, and then when you wake up, have another shot of vodka waiting for you, that’s almost certainly a dive (true story, though I was the patron being directed to the other side of the bar.) > > To me, it’s a bare-bones bar, mostly full of middle-aged and older locals; It’s a place where ordering a cocktail will get you a stern look if not a punch in the nose. (OK, some dives will whip up a girly drink or two, but it’s the kind of place that looks like ordering one would get you a punch in the nose.) It should be slightly intimidating on first visit. A dive bar really isn’t a place you travel for; it’s a place you go to out of necessity, because no other place is open at 3 a.m., or because you don’t feel like walking more than two blocks. And then, yeah, you learn the cast of characters and develop an affection for it. > > The types of bars described as “dives” these days I would probably describe as “dive-ish.” Like kind of going for the aesthetic and character of a true dive, but marketing to a young twenty-and-thirtysomething crowd that wants to get ripped on cheap American lager and Jager shots. I think the only quibble I have with your analysis is that I think a dive bar _ **should** _ make cocktails, but only fairly simple ones, and predominantly whiskey-based. Old Fashioneds or Manhattans should be within the purview of a dive bar, although they certainly won’t be made with hand-carved ice or artisanal bitters. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/11 "2016-09-11T15:26:01Z")
> [@carlb](#): > > I think the only quibble I have with your analysis is that I think a dive bar _ **should** _ make cocktails, but only fairly simple ones, and predominantly whiskey-based. Old Fashioneds or Manhattans should be within the purview of a dive bar, although they certainly won’t be made with hand-carved ice or artisanal bitters. It’s possible they do, but the dives I think of are more beer & shot kinds of places. I doubt the one I used to frequent before it closed down a couple years ago would even know what goes into a Manhattan or Old Fashioned. I literally have never seen a mixed drink served there, but I"m sure somebody at some point must have ordered a rum and coke. A Manhattan seems positively _classy_ to me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![chacoguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/50afbb/32.png) [@chacoguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chacoguy)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/12 "2016-09-11T15:40:03Z")
A dive bar is when it gets busy, there’s a line to pee in the sink. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/13 "2016-09-11T15:40:40Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > It’s possible they do, but the dives I think of are more beer & shot kinds of places. I doubt the one I used to frequent before it closed down a couple years ago would even know what goes into a Manhattan or Old Fashioned. I literally have never seen a mixed drink served there, but I"m sure somebody at some point must have ordered a rum and coke. A Manhattan seems positively _classy_ to me. 🙂 Gotta agree - if a bar can make a decent Manhattan it’s simply dive-ish ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/14 "2016-09-11T15:50:46Z")
What if they can make a Manhattan, but it’s not a decent one? ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/15 "2016-09-11T15:56:03Z")
Cheap drinks, small dirty ish glasses, no door on the men’s room, the hand dryer doesn’t work, you can’t leave your purse/coat unattended, it’s poorly lit and the patrons all look like they live on cigarettes and beer and haven’t seen the sun in months. ---
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/16 "2016-09-11T15:59:55Z")
Daytime hours for serious drinkers (not people having brunch). Food is minimal: either no food, or bagged chips. Pickles and hard boiled eggs. Or _maybe_ fried things from a kitchen, but as soon as it has a kitchen at all (even a dirty kitchen) it’s questionable. Not impossible, but suspect. Good but random music. Older crowd. Regulars have privileges that drop-ins do not. No complaints. Bartender tracks your tab and cashes you out the old fashioned way. Payment via a kitty is fine. Maybe the cocktails thing is regional – all the dive bars on my circuit serve plenty of cocktails, but it is ONE alcohol and ONE mixer for the most part. 7&7s, rum and cokes, vodka cran. There’s usually one older lady regular who drinks black russians. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/17 "2016-09-11T16:13:41Z")
> [@delphica](#): > > Daytime hours for serious drinkers (not people having brunch). > Food is minimal: either no food, or bagged chips. Pickles and hard boiled eggs. Or _maybe_ fried things from a kitchen, but as soon as it has a kitchen at all (even a dirty kitchen) it’s questionable. Not impossible, but suspect. > Good but random music. > Older crowd. > Regulars have privileges that drop-ins do not. No complaints. > Bartender tracks your tab and cashes you out the old fashioned way. Payment via a kitty is fine. > > Maybe the cocktails thing is regional – all the dive bars on my circuit serve plenty of cocktails, but it is ONE alcohol and ONE mixer for the most part. 7&7s, rum and cokes, vodka cran. There’s usually one older lady regular who drinks black russians. This I can agree with. One alcohol, one mixer cocktails are probably okay. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/18 "2016-09-11T16:17:50Z")
Conceded ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/19 "2016-09-11T16:25:56Z")
OK, for example, [here’s a list of the “9 best dive bars in Chicago.”](https://www.thrillist.com/drink/chicago/the-9-best-dive-bars-in-chicago-neighborhood-guide-to-dive-bars) I haven’t been to most of those, so I can’t speak, but Skylark was a semi-regular hangout for me. There is no way in shit that is a “dive bar.” They have a full menu and serve things like “panko breaded fried chiekn breast with portabella gravy” and “roasted beet salad with pickled red onions and blue cheese on mesclun greens with raspberry vinaigrette.” I"m pretty sure I’ve even eaten swordfish or monkfish or something like that off their specials board. They have 20 beers on tap, almost all craft brews. They have vegan sloppy joes. How in the hell does this get listed as a “dive bar”? The word has ceased to have any meaning it seems. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624/20 "2016-09-11T16:38:47Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > They have a full menu and serve things like “panko breaded fried chiekn breast with portabella gravy” and “roasted beet salad with pickled red onions and blue cheese on mesclun greens with raspberry vinaigrette.” WTF? Even Thurston Howell wouldn’t call that a dive bar! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-a-dive-bar/765624.md?page=2)