# What do you consider "The South" **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 2, 2008, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116 "2008-07-02T23:20:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/21 "2008-07-03T07:08:23Z")
[QUOTE=missred] The South is anywhere that you can order your tea sweet or unsweet! 😛 [/QUOTE] So true. And this question seems to come up half way between the two states. The default is unsweetened tea here. If you drive south on I-55 the question gets asked more frequently. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/22 "2008-07-03T07:26:15Z")
[QUOTE=missred] The South is anywhere that you can order your tea sweet or unsweet! 😛 [/QUOTE] You’re approaching the south if they offer you a choice of sweetened or unsweetened tea. You’re on the outskirts of the south if you can order unsweetened tea even though they don’t advertise it. You’re in the south if they look at you like you ordered a pet hippopotomus if you ask for unsweetened tea. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/23 "2008-07-03T11:25:16Z")
As I posted many times before, this is the best guide to the economic and cultural regions of North America: > **[The Nine Nations of North America](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_Nations_of_North_America)** > > The Nine Nations of North America is a 1981 book by Joel Garreau, in which the author suggests that North America can be divided into nine nations, which have distinctive economic and cultural features. He also argues that conventional national and state borders are largely artificial and irrelevant, and that his "nations" provide a more accurate way of understanding the true nature of North American society. The work has been called "a classic text on the current regionalization of North America... ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/24 "2008-07-03T11:45:01Z")
Pretty close to this chart, oddly: [http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/funny-graphs-californians.gif?w=500&h=380](http://graphjam.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/funny-graphs-californians.gif?w=500&h=380) (Religious nutballs + Texas) ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/25 "2008-07-03T12:15:35Z")
I think [this linguistic map](http://www.ling.upenn.edu/phono_atlas/NationalMap/NatMap1.html) defines the South pretty well. The places with shared liguistic patterns tend to have shared cultural patterns as well. Incidentally, I think this map also shows why the South has a cultural cohesiveness that is lacking in the North. (A phenomenon which sometimes seems to mystify our Northern brethren and sistren.) The one failing of the map is that it doesn’t really offer any analysis of Florida. Luckily [there’s a whole General Questions thread on whether Florida is “Southern”](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=473748) and in the context of that thread Doper **Bambi Hassenpfeffer** has put together a [helpful map of cultural patterns in Florida](http://www.flickr.com/photos/miketurk/2239810074/sizes/o/). ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/26 "2008-07-03T12:23:33Z")
Hmm. Let’s try that last link again: [**Bambi Hassenpfeffer** ’s cultural map of Florida](http://www.flickr.com/photos/miketurk/2239810074/sizes/o/). ---
**Author:** ![Harmonious\_Discord](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/74df32/32.png) [@Harmonious\_Discord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonious_Discord)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/27 "2008-07-03T12:24:42Z")
Any state farther down than Illinois or Iowa is a southern state. Illinois and Iowa are the middle states. Oklahoma and lower are the deep south. ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/28 "2008-07-03T14:11:35Z")
They make unsweetened tea? Who in their right mind would drink it? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/29 "2008-07-03T14:30:34Z")
Queensland. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/30 "2008-07-03T14:41:25Z")
Anywhere approximately within a polygon drawn between Weymouth\>Bristol\>Oxford\>London\>Brighton and back to Weymouth ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/31 "2008-07-03T14:41:31Z")
[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog] Queensland. 😃 [/QUOTE] Wouldn’t that be FNQ? ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/32 "2008-07-03T14:54:11Z")
[QUOTE=Duckster] Wouldn’t that be FNQ? [/QUOTE] Hmmm. Yes, I do believe you’re right. The SE of that state is Florida. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/33 "2008-07-03T15:03:15Z")
I was born and raised in Arkansas, and I’m surprised that anybody would consider it anything but Southern. Same goes for Louisiana. ---
**Author:** ![Merhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Merhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/34 "2008-07-03T15:08:58Z")
[QUOTE=Mosier] You’re approaching the south if they offer you a choice of sweetened or unsweetened tea. You’re on the outskirts of the south if you can order unsweetened tea even though they don’t advertise it. You’re in the south if they look at you like you ordered a pet hippopotomus if you ask for unsweetened tea. [/QUOTE] Is diabetes outlawed in the South? If so, I’m moving 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/35 "2008-07-03T15:30:42Z")
I’ll turn it around, I moved from Pennsylvania to western Kentucky when I was a teen. While KY was a “border” state during the civil war, my section was definitely confederate. The town square features a Confederate soldier memorial and the door to the courthouse, to paraphrase a southern writer, faces defiantly southward. I was a “Yankee” to my new classmates. Two years later, I again moved from KY to LA (that’s Lower Alabama 'round those parts), more specifically, the region of Mobile Bay (the incredible, portable, bay). When my new classmates asked me from where I moved, I was happy to say “Kentucky” since I was no longer a “Yankee”. KY, I thought, was definitely Dixie. My camouflage was complete, thought I. Nope. I was still a Yankee. Kentucky, to them, was definitely “north”. Strange ideas from them, they had no idea that Pennsylvania, for example, had rural areas. It was very rural where I lived (about 25 miles east of Pittsburgh). I lived on 3 acres and my neighbor was a full production dairy farmer. They pretty much thought you hit the Mason-Dixon line and it was pavement and penguins until you hit Canada. Most, if asked, also said the Mason-Dixon line was right around the KY/TN border, not hundreds of miles farther north. We moved into a rental house when we arrived near Mobile. The landlord sent a teen boy over to fertilize the lawn one day. The bags of fertilizer were in the garage. He walked in and spotted this odd object. It was a big, flat, orange blade on a wooden handle with a matching orange plastic grip on the other side. He held it up and asked my sister (who was near because she thought he was cute) what it was. It was a snow shovel. He had no idea what it was. My father, in Pennsylvania, said a coworker claimed that one day he was going to tie his snow blower onto his car’s roof and start driving south. The first place he was asked, “What is that?” would be the place he’d retire to. I used to think that was a joke. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/36 "2008-07-03T16:13:40Z")
I thought one of the requirements for a place to be “Southern”, was to have old men dressed in white suits, who are addressed as 'colonel". You also need “moon pies” and fanta soda. Grits served with breakfast are also important! ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/37 "2008-07-03T16:23:20Z")
[QUOTE=ralph124c] You also need… fanta soda. [/QUOTE] You’re thinking of Europe. In the South we drink Nehi, Dr. Pepper & Co-Cola. ---
**Author:** ![Belrix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ed655f/32.png) [@Belrix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belrix)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/38 "2008-07-03T16:44:01Z")
[QUOTE=Labrador Deceiver] You’re thinking of Europe. In the South we drink Nehi, Dr. Pepper & Co-Cola. [/QUOTE] Nah. Moon Pies taste best with _RC_ Cola. ---
**Author:** ![Hirundo82](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/919ad9/32.png) [@Hirundo82](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hirundo82)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/39 "2008-07-03T17:04:50Z")
The whole state is in the South: Tennessee, North Caroline (kind of; see comments about Appalacia an the end), South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana. Part of the state is in the South: Virginia–most of the state is southern, but definitely not Northern Virginia. I grew up in the Shenandoah Valley and frequently heard Northern Virginia referred to as “occupied Virginia.” Texas–Houston is definitely southern, as are the areas north and east. Going west, the South ends somewhere on I-10 between Houston and San Antonio. I haven’t travelled far enough south in Texas to know where the South ends, but I think it is south of Corpus Christi. In addition I haven’t spent enough time in Dallas to know if it is southern (life is too short to live in Dallas) but from my brief visits there and the comments of people in Houston about Dallas (ie “yankee Texans”), my impression is that it isn’t considered southern. Florida–I haven’t spent enough time here to know anything beyond north Florida is southern and south Florida is part of New York (or Cuba). Oklahoma I’m unsure about, but my impression is at least southeast Oklahoma is southern. West Virginia and Kentucky are tough to decide–they didn’t secede but had (and have) strong Confederate sympathies. They (along with eastern Tennessee, southwest Virginia and western North Carolina) are definitely Appalacia, and I’m not sure whether to consider that South or its own region. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2008, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116/40 "2008-07-03T17:15:30Z")
[QUOTE=ZipperJJ] I’m from Cleveland and I’m in Cincinnati right now. I feel like I’m in “the South.” Everyone has a weird accent and I passed a lot of Waffle Houses on the way down. I was in Columbus the other day and people had an accent there, too. A little lighter than the accent here, but it was definitely noticeable. It’s creeping me out. So my answer is “Anywhere south of Akron.” [/QUOTE] I noticed a distinct southern sounding accent in Columbus, especially compared to Cleveland. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-consider-the-south/455116.md?page=3)