# What do you do about Chris Johnson if you are the Titans? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 29, 2011, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551 "2011-08-29T23:01:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![pancakes3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ba9def/32.png) [@pancakes3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pancakes3)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/41 "2011-08-30T23:08:43Z")
well, you can win with defense, you can win with offense, you can win with running… the bottom line is you win with talent and Johnson is flat out talented. CJ didn’t get a huge 1st round rookie bonus and he missed out on a lot of endorsement years so it makes sense that he’s clamoring to get paid. In the end, if the titans have a decent contract on the table Johnson will cave. He’d be stupid not to. Like others have said, RB’s have precious few years to cash in and the Titans will still be here in 5 years whereas Johnson won’t. Push comes to shove, the Titans can just trade him and tank for “QB of the decade” Andrew Luck. I’m not too heartbroken for Johnson seeing as he’s got probably at least 25 mil of guaranteed money going his way if he plays ball (har har). It might not be the absurd Larry 40 mil but it’s still a handsome chunk of change. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/42 "2011-08-30T23:38:38Z")
> [@furt](#): > > The NFL players just signed a new CBA. Did you hear anyone on the players side talking about the desire to make NFL contracts work like those in the NBA or MLB? I didn’t. By and large, this is the system that both parties agree to: players who want more guarantees have to settle for lower overall dollars. Because we’d still be in a lockout if they had. There’s simply no way the owners would have agreed to guarantee contracts - and NBA players make significantly _more_ money than NFL players, on average. The theoretical maximum salary in the NBA is a little over $20 million. Kobe Bryant is making that much, plus whatever portion of his signing bonus was prorated. The NBA salary cap is $56 million per team, for a 12 man roster. The NFL salary cap is $120 million for a 53 man roster. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/43 "2011-08-30T23:50:36Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of contracts. There is always an ability to “opt out” of any work contract. You can’t really have a contract that doesn’t implicitly give that option because you can’t force someone to work, or act against their own volition. You can’t sign away your free will; all you can do is make it financially advantageous for either side to abide by the deal. You can do that by specifying terms or penalties if one side breaches the contract. Accordingly, there is ALWAYS a clear understanding on both sides that the player does not have to fulfill the contract as well. The ability to violate a contract is part and parcel contract law. It largely semantics that one side opts out while the other side violates the contract. While this is true, a player does not have the ability to walk away from a contract and sign with another team. He has to fulfill the terms of the contract first. The player can indeed opt not to play for the terms of the contract, but he’s sabotaging his own career in addition to current and future earnings. If he doesn’t play this year he’s killed his big-money contract prospects and he still owes the Titans a year. Presumably he’s factored this into his calculations, because God help him if he hasn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Kitten\_Mitten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b782af/32.png) [@Kitten\_Mitten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kitten_Mitten)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2011, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/44 "2011-08-30T23:53:48Z")
who gives a \_\_\_\_\_ about Chris Johnson? Just play Javon Ringer! Go GREEN! ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/45 "2011-08-31T00:25:45Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > There is always an ability to “opt out” of any work contract. Tell that to Carson Palmer. > [@astorian](#): > > The reason CJ wants big money now is precisely the reason the Titans are reluctant to give it to him: because even the best running backs have short careers. > > CJ thinks, “I won’t be much good in another few years, so I have to get big bucks while I can!” > > Bud Adams, meanwhile, thinks “He won’t be much good in another few years, so I’d be nuts to give him big bucks.” > > And they’re BOTH right! > > Adding to CJ’s problem is that, as the Denver Broncos proved a few years back, if you have a good offense and a strong offensive line, you can get very solid production from a second-tier running back. A LOT of guys nowhere near as talented as Terrell Davis put up very good yardage totals for the Broncos. > > The Titans may figure that IF their offensive line does a decent job, even a lesser running back than CJ can do a solid job for them. Too true! > [@Death\_of\_Rats](#): > > **Conversely, the last few years thier O-line was a patchwork of injuries and anyone they could grab off the street to fill holes and S-Jax still became one of the top RBs in the NFL.** When you have a talent like CJ you pay the man. Like was mentioned before, TEN could have locked him up long term for $10-12MM a year if they hadn’t cheaped out last year. See: Dillon, Corey. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/46 "2011-08-31T01:16:43Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > While this is true, a player does not have the ability to walk away from a contract and sign with another team. He has to fulfill the terms of the contract first. Partly true. He does NOT have to fulfill the terms of his contract first. If that were true then he’d have to play. What he cannot do is offer his services to a competing NFL team for the length of the contract. And that is only because the NFL collectively bargains, and has certain work exemptions. A typical work contract would liekly not be able to enforce such rules, leaving only civil retribution. Either way, my response was to the argument that, “once signed, though, the ability of the team to opt out (and in the inability of the player to do the same) is part of the contract, and it is not fair to say that the player has the right to violate the contract because the team can cut him when, by cutting him, the team is not violating the contract.” My point is that there is always an understanding that breaching a contract is fair game, especially when it’s a work contract. > [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > The player can indeed opt not to play for the terms of the contract, but he’s sabotaging his own career in addition to current and future earnings. If he doesn’t play this year he’s killed his big-money contract prospects and he still owes the Titans a year. Presumably he’s factored this into his calculations, because God help him if he hasn’t. Maybe, maybe not. Ultimately its a game of chicken that players often win. For every Carson Palmer, there are far more Emmitt Smiths, and JaMarcus Russells. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/47 "2011-08-31T01:53:33Z")
The Niners just gave Frank Gore (age 28) a three-year deal with $13.5 million guaranteed and $21 million total. To me, that would seem to strengthen Johnson’s hand. And if I were running the Titans I’d pay the guy. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/48 "2011-08-31T02:22:52Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > Maybe, maybe not. Ultimately its a game of chicken that players often win. For every Carson Palmer, there are far more Emmitt Smiths, and JaMarcus Russells. I don’t think that’s true, at all. Russell was released because he fucking sucked and Smith stayed with the same team his whole career. How are those situations comparable to what’s happening with Carson Palmer right now (not that I give a shit what that quitter pussywhipped motherjammer does.)? Why no, I am not a bitter Bengals fan, why do you ask? Andy Dalton is the new Ginger Jesus…who cares about Carson Palmer? ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/49 "2011-08-31T02:37:05Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I don’t think that’s true, at all. Russell was released because he fucking sucked and Smith stayed with the same team his whole career. How are those situations comparable to what’s happening with Carson Palmer right now (not that I give a shit what that quitter pussywhipped motherjammer does.)? > > Why no, I am not a bitter Bengals fan, why do you ask? > > Andy Dalton is the new Ginger Jesus…who cares about Carson Palmer? Jamarcus Russell [held out](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3013493) as a rookie to make more money. It was one of the longest hold outs by a rookie. Emmitt Smith also held out as a [rookie](http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19900904&slug=1091189), and a few years later when he missed 2 games. He also played for the Cardinals. They were both different from Palmer in terms of the exact contract disputes, but the idea that players can’t benefit from holding out or refusing to play if their demands aren’t met is silly. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/50 "2011-08-31T02:57:16Z")
To be fair, Emmitt Smith’s career was over when he went to the Cards. He just hadn’t stopped playing yet. See Rice, Jerry and the Seahawks. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/51 "2011-08-31T03:25:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The Niners just gave Frank Gore (age 28) a three-year deal with $13.5 million guaranteed and $21 million total. To me, that would seem to strengthen Johnson’s hand. And if I were running the Titans I’d pay the guy. I guess that strengthens his hand if all he wants is $7 million a year. I don’t think Gore and Johnson are really comparable, though; Gore is being paid because he’s been San Fran’s bell cow for umpteen years and he’s been underpaid most of that time. Johnson has only been in the league three years, but is even more underpaid. > [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I don’t think that’s true, at all. Russell was released because he fucking sucked and Smith stayed with the same team his whole career. How are those situations comparable to what’s happening with Carson Palmer right now (not that I give a shit what that quitter pussywhipped motherjammer does.)? His point is that both Smith and Russell “won” their holdouts - that is, they got the contracts they were holding out for. Arguably, Russell’s holdout ruined his rookie year and thereby ruined his career, but I’m inclined to believe he was going to flop no matter what. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/52 "2011-08-31T06:23:29Z")
Chris Johnson better fucking play…god damn fantasy draft… ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/53 "2011-08-31T11:34:26Z")
Sorry **brickbacon** , I missed your point there… ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/54 "2011-08-31T11:46:02Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Because we’d still be in a lockout if they had. There’s simply no way the owners would have agreed to guarantee contracts. Sure they would. The players would all have to take considerably lower salaries, but at some point such contracts would make financial sense for the owners; most contracts already include some guaranteed money, after all. As a thought experiment, ask yourself whether the Titans would sign a fully-guaranteed contract paying Johnson $1 million a year; of course they would. Players, in general, are willing to take less guaranteed in exchange for the possibility of earning more if they play well. That’s fine, but the flipside of that coin is they have to be ready for teams to offer less when they don’t play well or get hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/55 "2011-08-31T14:09:02Z")
Okay, there’s _a_ way - but I think we can all agree that it would be unreasonable to cut the players’ salaries by 90% in exchange for guaranteeing their contracts. 50%, perhaps. ---
**Author:** ![VarlosZ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d78d45/32.png) [@VarlosZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VarlosZ)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/56 "2011-08-31T15:40:39Z")
If NFL contracts were fully guaranteed, player salaries wouldn’t come down at all; they’d just be distributed differently. In MLB and the NBA, the contracts are guaranteed and the players as a whole take about the same percentage of revenues as those in the NFL, and a superstar can still eat up 20% of a team’s payroll. It’s just that more of the money is tied up in players who are no longer effective. Of course, an \*individual \*NFL player who demanded a guaranteed contract would have to accept a smaller one than otherwise, but mostly what would come down would be the \*stated \*value of the contract. The actual, expected value would change very little, presumably. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/57 "2011-08-31T16:29:41Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > Push comes to shove, the Titans can just trade him and tank for “QB of the decade” Andrew Luck. They just spent the 8th overall pick on a quarterback. Drafting Luck would be monumentally stupid, especially considering that teams will be willing to trade up to #1 now thanks to the rookie wage scale. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/58 "2011-08-31T20:41:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Okay, there’s _a_ way - but I think we can all agree that it would be unreasonable to cut the players’ salaries by 90% in exchange for guaranteeing their contracts. 50%, perhaps. I don’t think “reasonable” is a meaningful term in this context. It’s like saying $3 is the “fair” price for milk. Milk is worth what people will pay for it, and NFL players are worth what they can command on a (semi-)free market. I’ll note, however, that the typical big NFL contract (e.g. Vick’s) _is_ roughly 30-40% guaranteed, and that under the new CBA, most rookie contracts are now fully guaranteed. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/59 "2011-09-01T02:39:17Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Sorry **brickbacon** , I missed your point there… No worries. It’s understandable that mention of JaMarcus Russell makes people think draft bust first and foremost. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2011, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551/60 "2011-09-01T17:20:40Z")
[Johnson and the Titans have agreed to a four-year contract worth $30 million guaranteed and $53 million total.](http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/6916193/chris-johnson-tennessee-titans-agree-53m-deal-source-says) > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I guess that strengthens his hand if all he wants is $7 million a year. I don’t think Gore and Johnson are really comparable, though; Gore is being paid because he’s been San Fran’s bell cow for umpteen years and he’s been underpaid most of that time. Johnson has only been in the league three years, but is even more underpaid. My take was that if Gore was being paid that much, Johnson had a shot to do much better. He’s he’s been better than Gore for several seasons, and since he’s three years younger, you’d expect him to be more productive over the length of his contract. You’re right that Gore is sort of being paid back, but I think it pretty much makes sense that Johnson is better twice as much guaranteed money. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-do-about-chris-johnson-if-you-are-the-titans/594551.md?page=4)