The only thing I am arguing about is his claim of ignorance of the laws of his state as regards to driving in the right lane. My point concerns his supposed knowledge, not his supposed actions.
But you have said that you routinely drive above the speed limit yourself (as indeed do some 85% of drivers on typical US highways under good conditions).
So you’re both breaking the law and condemning others for the same: “My version of speeding is sane and sensible - but anyone overtaking me is a dangerous moron who deserves to be messed with.”
Now I’m sure this isn’t hypocrisy - but it does look like a rather good facsimile.
Just wanted to point out that Diogenes hasn’t bothered to respond to this post. Hum, wonder why? Obviously the situation changes when you’re dealing with busy rush-hour traffic.
From the Insurance Institute:
" Is speeding a safety problem?
Yes. Speeding is a factor in about one-third of all fatal crashes, killing more than 1,000 Americans every month. In 2008, speeding was a factor in 31 percent of motor vehicle crash deaths, killing 11,674 people. Based on a nationally representative sample of police-reported crashes, in 2008 speed was a contributing factor in about 16 percent of property-damage only crashes and 19 percent of crashes involving injuries. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) estimates that the economic cost of speed-related crashes is more than $40 billion each year."
Did you present evidence that going/passing too slowly poses a comparable risk to a driver? Must have missed it.
Being an inconsiderate driver and contributing to road rage incidents logically would be a factor heightening one’s risk (whether being a “passing lane hog” or speeding and getting into incidents with such people. Logic (and facts) also strongly suggest that speeding in general puts you more at risk than going too slowly.
By the way, a factor in those property-damage and injury crashes cited by the Insurance Institute is following too closely/tailgating. In the vast majority of cases, the tailgater is the one who is cited for a rear-end collision and/or pays for repairs.
Just another reason to back off.
“Ceteris pabis” eh? Sorry, but you do not have what you need to make
a prima facie case, and I am not sure the a posteriori requirements for
your case are availbable, your excursion into pop psychology being none
such. I see no reason a priori to assume that heightened emotion must
make someone a poorer driver. It might even make one a better driver.
You have along way to go before you can be considered a memeber of
the company of reasonable people. Step One is to devote your criticism,
all of it, to people who break the law, rather than those who abide by the law.
By the way you must justify your inconsistency with a bit more reasoning
than “this is OK, but that is not OK”.
Here are Dio’s points. First person to successfully refute all of them wins the thread.
[ul]
[li]There is no rule regarding the left lane being for passing.[/li][li]Driving above the speed limit is not acceptable, as it is against the law, no matter what.[/li][li]Even as a matter of courtesy, those annoyed by drivers impeding the flow of traffic in the left lane have no ground to be annoyed because[/li][li]ALL people who wish to pass in the right lane are speeding, which is illegal, and therefore wrong.[/li][li]There may or may not be a rule regarding left-lane passing, which there isn’t, but if there were, nobody enforces it, therefore, it is acceptable to refuse merge to the right when others attempt to pass.[/li][/ul]
Go!
I’m left wondering how they proved that the drivers wouldn’t have died if they weren’t speeding.
Or as George Carlin put it, “have you ever noticed how anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone driving faster than you is a maniac?”
“Left lane is for passing only” is neither in principal or in practice the same as “Give way to faster traffic in the left lane.”
The first rule requires you to stay in the right lane unless you’re passing. The second rule allows you to stay in the left lane so long as you move over when someone wants to pass you.
You now present an entirely different case.
Before I was supposed to be hypocritical because of not wanting
to be delayed to the same extent I was delaying others. I have
effectively rebutted that charge.
Your present case is sound, and I admit to being guilty of a minor
hypocrisy, one having no practical effect on our discussion here.
No. Let’s just get on with the thread, o.k.?
See, when you quote out of context, that’s almost as bad as editing someone’s quote. Is what I’m asking really too subtle, and being interpreted as “gee, do I have to obey the signs”?
Michigan is not one of the six states mentioned as having a keep-right law on the books. But we have signs indicating such. I see such signs in a lot of states (many more than six!) as a travel the highways.
I apologize for taking your post the wrong way.
I guess I should point out to an inconsistency before someone else does.
I have noted previoulsy that I usually drive 5-9mph over the limit, with the
average speed being much closer tp 5mph. That does make me a violator.
It does not diminish the point I am trying to get across about people who
drive at a much faster speed than me, by implication faster on average
than my maximum.
Not only that, but even in states that don’t specifically say so, by direct statute or by signage, there is still the matter of driving culture, which of course varies from place to place but has at least a strong tendency toward left-passing in most American states.
Depends on the jurisdiction. Where I am (Ontario), the booklet (on-line now as well) has both.
For example: Ministry of Transportation | ontario.ca “Once on the freeway, a safe driver travels at a steady speed, looking forward and anticipating what’s going to happen on the road ahead. Traffic should keep to the right, using the left lanes for passing.”
Ministry of Transportation | ontario.ca “Most passing is done on the left. You may pass on the right on multi-lane or one-way roads and when overtaking a streetcar or a left-turning vehicle.”
“Passing on the right can be more dangerous than passing on the left. If you are driving in the passing lane with a slower vehicle in front of you, wait for the vehicle to move to the right. Do not suddenly change lanes and pass on the right; the driver in front may realize you want to pass and move to the right at the same time you do.”
A good example up here of the difference between a sign that is a regulation as opposed to a sign that is a suggestion is speed signs. If it is a white sign with black lettering (a typical road’s speed limit sign), the speed is the maximum permitted under law. If it is a yellow sign with black lettering (commonly found on tight bends), the speed is the suggested maximum safe speed. Both types of signs are discussed in the Ministry of Transportation’s booklet.
Other than for a lone car cruising in the left lane of an uncrowded road, how would these principles differ in practice?
Aren’t we in the IMHO section? I’m glad everyone is citing laws and regulations, but I’ll give my opinion:
In almost any method of getting from point A to B, you’ll find that different people tend to move at various rates of speed, but people seem to be polite and try to work together. For example, if a couple is out for a slow romantic walk in the woods, they usually move aside when a jogger happens by. After all, they weren’t in a hurry anyway.
Why can’t the roads be the same? I don’t care why you want to drive slowly----maybe your car isn’t very good, maybe you’re enjoying the scenery, maybe you just don’t want to get caught in a highway revenue trap----that’s all fine and well, but you could at least be considerate enough to stay out of others’ way.
And life’s full of arbitrary conventions that make life easier for everyone. We know which direction clocks are supposed to turn, which faucet is for the hot water, and which way to move the switch to turn the lights on.
Even where pass-on-the-left isn’t a law, it’s certainly a convention, and a good one at that.
Therefore, even if a left-lane hog isn’t in violation of the law, he sure is in violation of common courtesy. He’s no more right than the couple holding hands walking down the center of the jogging path.
Wherever it’s not illegal to impede the left lane, the law should be changed, and rigorously enforced.
Furthermore, for some reason we as a society have decided to spend altogether too much time in our cars, overcrowding our highways more than they were ever meant to be. That makes it ever more important to be considerate and not impede the free flow of traffic.
N.p. 
You’re kidding, right? They’re exactly the opposite.