# What do you feel are the most brilliant, creative, effective military operations in human history **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 7, 2025, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314 "2025-06-07T23:38:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2025, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/41 "2025-06-08T22:05:25Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > During a desperate moment, he chose the only option available - attack. Whether or not this was a significant event in the war has been debated… Maybe it is debated. I usually have seen it portrayed as the single turning point of the whole war. That little battle (in the much bigger battle around them) was a really big deal. I’m not sure I would put this in the “brilliant” category though. The Union soldiers had little choice. There was not much genius behind this, just brave soldiers. Kudos to all of them but this was not a planned thing. It was a thing of desperation…and it worked. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2025, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/42 "2025-06-08T22:32:06Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Did the French know how bedeviled by cold, hunger, and disease the English were? I’m away from my books right now but yes: they certainly knew about the disease from reports from Harfleur (huge casualties) and the trail of corpses on the march. Intelligence on the general state of the army and it’s provisions would have come from locals who had one way or the other supplied the English as well as from prisoners taken in skirmishes and also a well developed understanding of the capacities of contemporary logistics. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2025, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/43 "2025-06-08T23:39:36Z")
Why I included Agincourt. Henry’s psychology of his men to get them ready to fight when by all rights they could have rolled over and died. Changing the battle plans literally at the last minute to take advantage of the muddy fields. Hiding the archers in the forest on what would eventually be the French flank. Waiting until the French started lunch until attacking but it prodded the French into making a full attack to the French disadvantage. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2025, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/44 "2025-06-08T23:51:39Z")
Yeah, that’s all fair. Henry was not a passive participant in the battle. But I just always marvel at a) what a shockingly precarious position he’d put himself in, such that the only thing that could save him was a crushing defeat of a larger, better equipped army and b) just how much effort the French put into to giving him the chance to achieve that. No shade to Henry who can only play the team in front of him, but most of what you listed can equally well be rephrased as things the French didn’t have to do as well as things he did. Stay out the mud! Give yourself room on your flanks! Don’t be the ones to charge! ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2025, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/45 "2025-06-08T23:58:05Z")
But let’s compare that to the Battle of Hastings. All Harold’s army had to do was stand their ground but the right wing was baited into charging by a second fake retreat and Harold gets to see an arrow really close up. But no one would put William’s plan on this list. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/46 "2025-06-09T00:04:06Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > But no one would put William’s plan on this list. Are we to count being able to take advantage of a situation as it develops on the battlefield or are we meant to consider a strategy/tactic that was planned ahead of time? I can go either way with this. (or both) Paging @Wesley_Clark ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/47 "2025-06-09T00:09:32Z")
OP said operation so I assumed that includes what led up to the battle as well. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/48 "2025-06-09T00:11:43Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > > But no one would put William’s plan on this list. > > Are we to count being able to take advantage of a situation as it develops on the battlefield or are we meant to consider a strategy/tactic that was planned ahead of time? > > I can go either way with this. (or both) Paging @Wesley_Clark Either one is fine as far as I’m concerned. I’m surprised how few examples there are in modern (meaning post industrial revolution) times. Maybe some of the best strategic and tactical decisions are still classified. Stuxnet was supposed to remain classified for example. The reason Ukraine released evidence of its drone attacks on Russia may have been for psychological warfare purposes (forcing Russia to check every truck, slowing down logistics and their economy). ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/49 "2025-06-09T00:19:27Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I’m surprised how few examples there are in modern (meaning post industrial revolution) times. Desert Storm-I was pretty masterful from start to finish. General Norman Schwarzkopf out-thought the Iraqis at every turn. Remember, at the time, on paper, Iraq had something like the [4th biggest military on the planet.](https://www.ourmidland.com/news/article/Iraq-s-Army-Was-Once-World-s-4th-Largest-7151366.php) Stormin Norman dismantled them completely. Arguably the most successful military campaign ever. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/50 "2025-06-09T00:23:03Z")
Ah, but why not? “Draw them out their shield line with a fake retreat” is at least as brilliant and creative as “shoot them full of arrows as they struggle through the mud”. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/51 "2025-06-09T00:24:28Z")
> [@Stanislaus](#): > > “Draw them out their shield line with a fake retreat” The Mongols were famous for this tactic. It worked well for them many, many, many times. Kinda their go-to move. They won many battles doing this. ---
**Author:** ![Kropotkin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kropotkin/32/18045_2.png) [@Kropotkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kropotkin)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/52 "2025-06-09T00:37:35Z")
Not sure this counts as effective. The dams were quickly repaired, of the 1,600 civilians killed in the attack, about 1,000 were enslaved Soviet prisoners, many of them women from Ukraine–Allies, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/53 "2025-06-09T00:56:18Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > General Norman Schwarzkopf out-thought the Iraqis at every turn. I mean, he also had the benefit of a hugely superior army, in numbers, training, and technology. He did make very good use of his advantages, but even an incompetent general would have won sooner or later. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/54 "2025-06-09T01:04:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I mean, he also had the benefit of a hugely superior army, in numbers, training, and technology. He did make very good use of his advantages, but even an incompetent general would have won sooner or later. Iraq had the fourth biggest military at the time. Vietnam defeated the US with a lot less. Korea fought to a standstill with less. Afghanistan defeated the US with less (and Soviets too). They managed despite our much superior military. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/55 "2025-06-09T01:13:16Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Stormin’ Norman and the first Gulf War, Operations Desert Shield and Desert Storm were extremely effective and efficient. I recall from some book reading about Coalition bait tactics with using drones to entice Iraqis into turning SAM radars on and then promptly mass-striking them with HARM missiles. Probably standard practice today, but in 1991 was pretty cutting edge. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/56 "2025-06-09T01:15:23Z")
The terrain helped a lot, too. With flat desert in many of the spaces, there was no place for Iraqis to effectively hide from Coalition air/space surveillance/recon. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/57 "2025-06-09T01:29:56Z")
It reminded me of the poem from the great WWII documentary “The World At War” “The Desert” Episode about the Northern Africa campaign: [Peter Batty](http://www.poetryatlas.com/poetry/author/957/peter-batty.html) _This land was made for war._ _As glass resists the bite of vitriol,_ _so this hard and calcined earth_ _Rejects the battle’s hot, corrosive impact._ _Here is no nubile, girlish land;_ _No green and virginal countryside for war to violate._ _This land is hard._ _Inviolable._ ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/58 "2025-06-09T01:31:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Desert Storm-I was pretty masterful from start to finish. General Norman Schwarzkopf out-thought the Iraqis at every turn. > > Remember, at the time, on paper, Iraq had something like the [4th biggest military on the planet.](https://www.ourmidland.com/news/article/Iraq-s-Army-Was-Once-World-s-4th-Largest-7151366.php) Stormin Norman dismantled them completely. Arguably the most successful military campaign ever. I don’t agree personally. The Iraq war was a show of how important technological differences are in warfare. Its like saying the Italian invasion of Ethiopia in 1935 was strategic brilliance. It was more due to a difference in technology. The Iraqis had been decimated by 8 years of war with Iran, and were using outdated military hardware against a more advanced military. Plus only about 20% of Iraqis identify as arab sunni, with the rest being Shia and Kurdish, so they likely didn’t want to fight for a Sunni dictator. I thought people were surrendering in droves in Iraq because it was their chance to escape Hussein. The US destroying half of Iran’s navy in 1988 wasn’t really an act of tactical brilliance, just technological superiority. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/59 "2025-06-09T01:35:59Z")
I’d say the brilliance was epitomized in how few casualties the US suffered. Even being technically outclassed Iraq was on their home soil with prepared positions. Even weak, under-equipped armies…or even citizen rabble…can give an invader a bloody nose. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2025, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314/60 "2025-06-09T01:36:53Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Iraq had the fourth biggest military at the time. There’s an old adage that the largest air force in the world is the US Air Force, the second-largest air force in the world is the US Navy, and the third-largest is the US Army. It doesn’t matter how many other nations were between us and Iraq; what matters is the ratio of our size to theirs. And the reason why we lost in Vietnam and Afghanistan, and stalemated in Korea, was because we couldn’t win. We had no win condition. If there’s no win condition, we can’t achieve it, no matter the general, no matter all of our many advantages. Bush the Elder wisely kept our mission in the first Gulf War to getting Iraq out of Kuwait. That’s a well-defined objective, and Schwarzkopf achieved it, and so we won. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-do-you-feel-are-the-most-brilliant-creative-effective-military-operations-in-human-history/1019314.md?page=4)